Travis,
Some good thoughts. I think you are headed in the right direction.
While we aknowledge certain aspects we need to qualify some as well.
For instance.
"I am convinced that the reason that the Adventist Church is struggling so much in North America is because we have a one-size-fits-all mentality, generally speaking."

You are speaking to a certain aspect here and thats fine but we need to recognize that a large part of the problem in North America is as Amos found among the "cows of Bashan".
We are fat, happy and in need of nothing.
I also agree where you say,
"Idealistic authors and professors insist that we can transform our local churches into evangelism mega-centers which will reach out to the whole community with our message. Just follow steps A, B, and C they tell us and voila - instant success. This is a pipe dream my friends. One church can never, and should not be expected to, appeal to and meet the needs of the whole community in which it belongs."

I am involved with planting churches in 3 states. When ever I hear (and I frequently do) all about whatever the mega-churches are doing and we should do the same, I always check to make sure we are following Christ and not the neighbors. Now if the neighbors are doing something we should be doing biblically but are not, we really dont need the neighbors to tell us that do we?
That is usually the problem. Where the neighbors come in are things like the newest marketing and branding tricks and the bribery ministry (a little inside joke) like providing breakfast and latte's, door prizes and valet parking. This type of stuff appeals to the "cows of Bashan" and when used we hope it leads to a deeper relationship and a better motive for attending.

Where you say,
"Our churches have been lulled to sleep in no small part because of the big money that is thrown towards evangelism each year by our conferences. Millions of dollars are spent, handbills and advertising go out, tremendous results are promised, hired guns come in who can never be questioned, and all the members have to do is come. But when everything else is done for them it is not surprise that most can’t even do that. And the result: nine times out ten these meetings end in relative disappointment. People blame the evangelist, the evangelist blames the people, and the cycle goes on and on.

Instead of conferences spending in upwards of $5,000.00 or more per convert (not including all those who afterward leave through the back door of the church), they should be investing this money into planting new churches."

One must realize that unless even the church plants do a better job of outreach and sheparding than the older established churches they will have no more success than the parent churches.

A church plant doesnt do anything better than an established church can. It is only that the people involved in church planting are nearly always more dedicated and willing to spend more time in outreach and sheparding.

This brings us to who should plant a church and why. If you want to have success in church planting, you must have a real desire to have people in the kingdom. Many time churches are planted to create a more culturally familiar setting. This is nessisary.

However there is the old story of the No coat hook Baptist Church. Have you heard this story? A particular Baptist Church had a split over if there should be coat hooks in the entry hall or if the coats should be in a cloak room. Long story short, the coat hook in the entry people split off and started the No coat Hook Baptist Church. This is not a way to reach more people for the kingdom. Most church plants who start over personal preferences are likely to fail big since the motivations are not for those who dont know Christ, but instead what appeals to themselves.

I would like to know what you mean when you say, "Our churches have been lulled to sleep in no small part because of the big money that is thrown towards evangelism each year by our conferences."

I find churches who are plenty sleepy that have nothing to do with evangelism. They budget more for snow removal every year than they do for evangelism or outreach of any kind. My assessment in the broadest of terms is complacency and the same cows of Bashanitis that affects the whole country including ourselves.

Currently in Augusta the great church splitter is Praise Worship and other forms of pentacostalism. Recently, First Presibyterian Church split and months earlier St Andrews Episcopal Church Split. Several Baptist churches have also divided over the same issue. One senior Baptist pastor now sells securities because he wouldn't embrace emotionalism.

What the world needs is healing but it keeps demanding a "fix". Getting high seems to beat getting "saved" the great barn burner of Billy Graham's day.

There is one story that never grows old. Tell it in a believable fashion. "How Jesus Won His Case." Everybody loves a winner. Tom

Thanks Michael for your critique.

You said "One must realize that unless even the church plants do a better job of outreach and shepherding than the older established churches they will have no more success than the parent churches."

"A church plant doesn't do anything better than an established church can. It is only that the people involved in church planting are nearly always more dedicated and willing to spend more time in outreach and shepherding."

I agree with what you are saying. The reason we need to plant should not be motivated by personal preference but by love for humanity. However in my experience there are a few people in the established churches who do have a love for their neighbor and they work real hard to bring people into the church, but when people come, there is already an established culture in the local church that even the bast efforts of a few truly converted people cannot overcome. Thus a new church plant has the potential to be built on a whole different set of "DNA" that is conducive to be a welcoming, accepting place for visitors and young people especially.

Maybe I am in a different situation than others, but in the conferences I have been associated with big money is only spent on traditional evangelistic models. Maybe in other places traditional evangelism isn't practiced at all anymore, and if I erred in my assumption I apologize.

Michael you also said: "I would like to know what you mean when you say, "Our churches have been lulled to sleep in no small part because of the big money that is thrown towards evangelism each year by our conferences."

What I mean is that they don't feel like they have to really personally own the evangelistic efforts of the church. They can finance it through offerings and tithe. Then "professionals" are brought in to do the job. If conferences would stop throwing this big money out there, which only seems to keep the cycle of dysfunction going, and actually started dealing with the root of the problem, then we might see improvement, slow at first, some churches may die totally, but in the end we would be stronger by forcing members to "get their hands dirty" to see their church grow.

The root of the problem as I see it is lack of discipleship, lack of spiritual growth, a permissive attitude about sin, a non emphasis on the 2nd coming of Christ. all these things play in to complacency. It is not just that we are rich, but we are rich without spiritual purpose. A re-emphasis on church planting and mission in our local communities could revive spiritual purpose and force people once again to learn to rely on Christ completely as a new church is planted. The conferences have the money to devote a large force of full-time church planters, especially in our cites, but they have to re prioritize how they spend and stop catering so much to the big churches.

Just some thoughts. look forward to a continual dialog with you Michael.

For an excellent commentary on this, see AToday.com for Monte Sahlin's article explaining the problems inherent in evangelism today.

We confuse terms. Evangelism is promoting the Good News or the Evangel. What the church is doing is recruiting pure and simple. Justification by faith alone has no part in any campaign held in Augusta Ga during the past 42 years.

Tithing gets more emphasis than salvation. The lack of discipleship is due to the evangelist never introducing the convert to anyone but himself. Who is the convert to follow? Why? How? Jesus Christ offers an open door. That means come in and be healed and then go out to serve. But what do you get?
"be good better, better not cry Santa Claus is coming to town.
He knows who been good or bad so be good for goodness sake!"

When distilled there is no there there! So people go through the motions. I found my Jesus in my Dad and my mother, in Graham Maxwell, Edward Heppenstall, H.M.S. Richards, in the Gospel of John, In the Epistles of Paul, in a Presbyterian Pastor Dan McCall and now in a Presbyterian Pastor Les Holmes. I found my Jesus in John R. W. Stott, Philip Yancey, yes even Pope John XXIII. and Good Old Father Mac.

I didn't find much in the United Way, the Salvation Army and about the same on Boards of Trustees at LLU and SMC. Gimme and Gotcha ruled the day.

"I serve a risen Savior, He's in the World today!" When we find that kind of conviction we will find the kind of discipleship this threat whines for. I think Dave longs for it, that is why he started this thread.
I hope he finds it. But he will never find it in all the thrusts and jabs thrown. Yes Adventism is becoming more Jew like and less Christ like, period. Ethics and ehtos are a products of Salvation not its cause. Jews and Adventists would have it the other way around. In that way they are exactly alike down to the "other white meat"! Tom

I really like the JW method where they have small churches all over the place. They get a certain number in a church and then send out a group to build up another church. I'm not sure that we need to have membership as small as the JW's, but I think that we can learn a lot from their model.

Expressions like OUTREACH - SHEPARDING -CHURCH PLANT are bucolic take offs for hard business practices. Evangelism is run like a business advertising plan (do A,B, and C and , voila, you get a percentage payback).

As I recall, Paul, presumably one of the biggies when it comes to evangelism, pronounced, "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. ... For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. ... and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the the Spirit and of power SO THAT YOUR FAITH WOULD NOT REST ON THE WISDOM OF MEN, BUT ON THE POWER OF GOD. (I Cor.1:17; 2:2-5) In other words, SO THAT YOUR FAITH WOULD NOT REST ON NIFTY BUSINESS STRATEGIES.

It seems to me that evangelism is about numbers - numbers baptised and moneys payed out/monies made, (where the convert represents tithe gathered) and that is only where the $5,000 per convert becomes significant.

If the SDA church had a relevant message (the Gospel of Christ) evangelism would be a success - you know - "By their fruits you shall know them". I know that's a naive concept, but it sounds Biblical to me.

Travis

Good comments!
I have had some internet access difficulties and out of town trips and just today got back to your blog.
I think you had some good perspective where you relate,
"The root of the problem as I see it is lack of discipleship, lack of spiritual growth, a permissive attitude about sin, a non emphasis on the 2nd coming of Christ. all these things play in to complacency. It is not just that we are rich, but we are rich without spiritual purpose. A re-emphasis on church planting and mission in our local communities could revive spiritual purpose and force people once again to learn to rely on Christ completely as a new church is planted."
All good stuff.

I would like to comment on the difference as I experience it in 2 of your points. The 1st is here,
"Our churches have been lulled to sleep in no small part because of the big money that is thrown towards evangelism each year by our conferences....(and) What I mean is that they don't feel like they have to really personally own the evangelistic efforts of the church. They can finance it through offerings and tithe. Then "professionals" are brought in to do the job. "

And the 2nd is here.
The conferences have the money to devote a large force of full-time church planters, especially in our cites, but they have to re prioritize how they spend and stop catering so much to the big churches."

The professionals that are "brought in to do the job" is 1 guy who preaches. The money doesnt go to him nor does 95% of the work. The local congregations work with interested parties prior to the meetings and the local people who have developed the relationships with these people are supposed to be the ones that make the visits and are there to answer their questions and support them through the process and beyond.

In short I believe your second point is more of the problem and also why series based evangelism in a church that is lazy (I know, hard word)and expects their Pastor to do their soul winning for them have such bad retention rates. They are attenders more than members or disciples.
They want to be "FED" which is often code talk for church is about me, my preferences, my likes and my desires instead of church being about God, and what is pleasing to him, how I can assist in the worship service or the childrens divisions or the PA booth ect. They would frankly rather talk about academic nuances and enjoy the service for its entertainment value than really work with people who have no religious background midweek and SERVE on Sabbath.

They are most commonly found in big churches and they want a Senior Pastor who preaches exceptionally, a youth Pastor who will take responsibility for their childrens spiritual education or also quite commonly their "daycare" while they (the parents) attend services. They will also ask the conference for a fulltime bible worker to go along with their associate Pastor. They also usually have a school and their principal is usually a Pastor of some type and then they have also their bible teachers and chaplins ect.

So a chuch with say, 600 on the books with 250-300 attending will effectively soak up 7-8 saleries to the benifit of the constituent church. This leaves a Pastor/professional bible instructor ratio of approx. 1:32 to 1:42.

Meanwhile other Pastors are asked to single handedly lead 3 churches perhaps 25-50 miles apart, each with 45-90 members.

In short, conferences with less effective leadership succumb to the pressures they get from the BIG churches who usually have 1 or 2 big donors and their families and friends who bring up the fact that their Dad, grandpa or uncle donate a lot of money.

Weak leaders have little trouble succumbing to the pressure of churches of 45-90 members.

In my experience, these dynamics are not the design or plan of any conference. Different conference Presidents with various levels of leadership ability and many times fail or succeed with this problem.
And to the extent that they fail or succeed, I am reminded of the cartoon strip POGO by Walt Kelly who said, We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us!

Good posts, all. But here is something to chew on. We live in a post-modern age, where a significant percentage of people are skeptical of organized religion. I realize I am very unusual for a practicing Adventist, but most of my friends are non-SDA. Some are atheists, some are Hindu, Catholic, even Buddhist. My husband's family are almost exclusively atheist. Almost none of these people would attend a traditional evangelistic series. How do we reach these people?? Unfortunately, most of them have had contacts with Adventists before and almost 100% of them (that I know about) were negative impressions. Adventists make a big deal out of not eating meat, but they will sleep with the girl across the street and smoke pot. That kind of thing. Church plants would not reach these people. Evangelistic meetings would not, either. Our traditional way of thinking is alien to them. Most of these people are well-educated with advanced degrees and that makes it even harder. Why do you that THAT is???

I have been grilled by sisters-in-law about why I believe in a 6-day creation. I have been put on the hot seat by a dear Methodist friend who asked me why Adventists make such a big deal out of not having anchovies on their pizza but then they turn around and do some unspeakable atrocities. I have been questioned by a Catholic friend (who dated an Adventist) about why it is wrong to go to movies and even wrong to go to a university concert series (because it's held in a "theater"), and I happened to know that there was a great deal of sex going on in that relationship.

Help me out here. What is the best thing to do? We are going on and on about why we are not bringing in more converts, we are talking about church planting, we are talking about being contented in our rich, fat state, and I see how we are "witnessing" out there in the world, and it ain't pretty.

So I think perhaps we ought to take a hard look at ourselves and our church. Let's look at the culture we are in. Let's not pretend this is 1850. This is 2008 and a great many people are very turned off by religion. What do we do now? The sawdust floors and little Hammond organs and the tents, are not going to cut it, folks. Assuming that our audience believes in creation and in God is not going to help us either.

Claire

As the kids say, I feel you Claire

I've been their too.
I have seen so many people whether its the friends we have like you speak of or even people here on Spectrum who seemingly cannot seperate the religion from the participant.

As Christians we point to Christ as our example but as humans both in and out of the church we percieve the "church" as the guy in the next row who is as you say a schizophrenic Adventist who seemingly reconciles his amourous pot smoking lifestyle with his vegan meditaion.

We all need to do better and we are very bad at trying to fix each other.

Long story short, the best I have been able to do in your situation is say, just because that person does this or that does not mean that is the reccommended path the "Church" advises.

I am sometimes glad I am alone in my car instead of with a person I am trying to witness too when a guy cuts me off and I yell, You stupid Jerk!

In your situation the best solution might be to tell your friends, well, yes he may be schizophrenic in his religious practices but do you find me to be as schizophrenic as him? Do you hear me saying that anchovies are a sin or just that they are just plain gross? Why get your impression of what Adventists are like from the worst examples?

I wish you all the best and will be praying for you. Thank you for your post and good luck!

How can we pray that the Lord will bless the church when the leaders are liars, defrauding the members with the pyramid schemes and more?
For those who haven't yet read it, I cannot too highly recommend "Who Watches, Who Cares: Misadventures in Stewardship." to understand how and why for the past 30 years church leaders have been complicit in allowing and promoting the Davenport scandal, the Harris Pine Mill that had always produced a good revenue and once willed to the church in a few years filed for bankruptcy; plus many more financial fiascos

A note from the book regarding pastors: "A treasurer of a North American local conference conducted research that resulted in an astounding discovery: for every one hundred pastors employed by the church in North America, there are an additional eighty-two, full-time denominational administrative employees on local, union, division or general conference payrolls. These do not include employees of church-owned institutions, such as schools or hospitals or similar entities. It goes without saying that conferences that currently need additional pastors might have the means to employ them if somewhere along the line someone did not hire the supernumeraries now in place....The support group of eighty-two refers to North American church employees on all levels, including the burgeoning administrative overhead in every arena. Let us remember that every entire union conference staff is nonpastoral, and the number of employees at these centers is astounding."

This book should be required reading of everyone who cares for, and is interested in the SDA church. Until the members take charge and realize that is THEIR church, this will continue.
The manner in which delegates and nominating committees are selected is such a terrible conflict of interest: they vote for each other, and the people they supervise dare not speak out or risk the loss of their position. The boards of the hospitals are merely duplicates of the conferences. IOW, the paid leaders vote for their perks and pay which we turn over to them in the tithe! Wanna know why the hospital administrators who were former pastors became CEOs of hospitals with only pastoral, and no business training or experience; and why they voted themselves humungous salaries and benefits?
No one was watching the shop. The members of the church have let the foxes guard the henhouse and then we complain! Good stewardship should demand that members demand accountability.

Enjoying the dialogue... I haven't posted much on Spectrum, but I think I might have to start!

I think we have to start by being those people we wish to see around us. Be the kind of Adventist that is unashamedly spiritual and exhibits a genuine love for people and interest in them.

Claire, I think it's great that you have so many friends who aren't adventist. More adventists need to make friendships a priority outside of the church family.

It's really sad that so many people have experiences with Adventists who'd refuse the anchovy pizza while slandering the neighbour next door... but too often it's reality. The adventist church is made up of humans, after all... But we don't have to settle for being that way! And we can encourage other Adventists we know to be different too. So much power is in the way we live and talk, to influence others to be real Adventists who love Jesus and live it out in everyday life - not just random people who don't eat cheese.

If we want to change evangelism in the Adventist church, then we each have to be willing to get involved in relationships with people. We have to make ourselves available for friendship evangelism, and be the ones who show up in the middle of the week to serve. We might have to cut back on the other things that crowd our time, so we can be authentic biblical Christians - the kind who put service/compassion/sharing Jesus at the top of the priority list instead of at the bottom. And we have to know why we are who we are, so that when we have tough questions asked, we can answer them accurately and with some personal experience.

Isn't it all about the story? Your story. My story. Jesus' story. Listening to the stories and journeys of others. Sharing our own. Journeying together?

You guys should check out a new movement in the Adventist church. Don't know if you're aware of the Centre for Secular & Postmodern Studies-CSPS or not. But there are leaders in the worldwide church that see the need for moving away from the expensive traditional evangelism and toward something that actually works in a postmodern society.

CSPS is working to bring awareness and training for friendship evangelism, shifting people's paradigms to see themselves as the year-round evangelists rather than the big shots that pop by on speaking tour once every eleven months. It takes a lot of work and time to transform how people think, but the concept is really spreading.

The next RE:FRAME training event on ministry to postmoderns (in the USA) is October 10-12 in Los Angeles area. It's pretty exciting stuff!

Keep up the conversation!