In Jackson's concluding remarks, I think I hear him saying:

• Paragraph 1 - I presided over a democratic process. The people spoke. This is the result.
• Paragraph 2 - The NAD has a right to be involved in amending policy. How you respond to their exercising that right will be significant.
• Paragraph 3 - In case you think NAD is going rogue, keep in mind that a majority of tithe that supports the world church and its mission comes from NAD.
• Paragraph 4 - So Church leaders, the ball is in your court. What will be your Christ-like response?

How about Jackson for GC president? We have time for a grass roots ground swell...

Awesome and courageous!

In the grip of grace

Steve Moran

I knew Pastor Dan Jackson when he was in 9th grade. He is walking a fine line between a G.C. President that tends toward the authoritarian and totatalitarian. I submit he's walking it with courage and skill. If Ted Wilson continues his sophistry as demonstrated in his callous disregard for the lady commissioned as a pastor in Australia and his recusal from the Fall Council Commitee discussing a variance with respect to the role of women as conference president, only to take to the microphone to influence others in the committee, he may well be a one term president. I say Dan Jackson for G.C. President.

Les Palinka

Marianne I would only add that his comment does not even contain truth.

In the grip of grace

Steve Moran

Funny that Jesus looks a bit like a hippie on many drawings. And he sure was accused of debauchery.

But in all seriousness, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. In this forum at least. Even TruthWave. This very fact in the logic of TruthWave must be painful to bear. Yet it is freely used. Mhmmm. What a paradigm.

"This very fact in the logic of TruthWave must be painful to bear. Yet it is freely used. Mhmmm. What a paradigm." -- Andreas Bochmann

Paradigm, or paradox?

Truthwave, are you trying for a record in down-arrow votes? Or do you just like the negative attention you elicit? Yet Spectrum allows you to speak your mind, regardless of whether you appreciate it or not.

"I hope and pray that Jackson gets the boot as soon as possible, and Ted Wilson does at least two terms as the GC President." Truth Wave

How right you are and don't let the libs wear you down as they apparently have Jackson. In His Own way the Good Lord will certainly correct the rebellion that Jackson engaged in.

You're maybe expecting logic from Truth Wave? Looking for water in a desert?

With some of these comments it becomes evern more evident that the secular humanists have far excelled in accepting all humans: black, white, red, male, female, gays and all people as equal. When the church can rise to that level, it may get the world's attention. Until then it's just another exclusive, segregated club with little reason to exist.

A man convinced against his will
is of the same opinion still...

This saying may be true at both ends of the Spectrum, of course. However, Jackson tried at least to provide some reasoning for his position, and kill some myths in the process. That this attempt would not be overly successful in certain circles, was predictable, but the effort was important.
What surprises me again and again in this discussion is, how the "conservatives" think that the "liberals" are looking for the easy way out, avoid the harsh truth of the Bible, simply enjoy life, rather than take the cross upon themselves. It strikes me as odd - maybe a projection of their own longings and desires - but definitely not true. The very discussions here, the painstaking efforts to dialogue with people of different opinions, the soul searching, the effort at exegesis rather than proof texting are all anything but "liberal hedonism" or California Beach Feeling. But yes - it is about "freedom" (does Gal. 5 ring a bell these days?) Thanks.

Elder Jackson's statement comes across to me as courteous, clear, respectful of the General Conference and supportive of the world-wide church. He did very well and I thank him.

Those who oppose the ordination of women must take more seriously than they appear to have so far that those of us who support it are just as conscientious in our views and that we are no more likely to concede or to exit the denomination.

It will do no good for either group to continue trying to change the minds of those in the other or for either group to try to force the other out of the denomination by treating it disresprectfully. These things are not going to happen. Both groups are here to stay and the sooner we face this fact the sooner things will get better.

The most important question before us at this point is not whether qualified women should be ordained but how all of us can live and serve together despite our deep, abiding and irreconcilably different answers to this question.

This is all complete cascading bull-hooey. There is no way TW will be a one-term president because the western church doesn't elect him. You didn't get that message at the last GC session? Who from the NAD voted for him, do you think? Dream on, mates.

here is an open letter from the "remnants" to elder dan (NAD) and TED.

i thought i'd share it here.

Daniel R. Jackson, North American Division President of Seventh-day Adventists
Bertil Wiklander, Trans-European Division President of Seventh-day Adventists
All executive committee members

Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

It is with very heavy hearts that we write this letter. We understand that we have no church authority for doing so, but as church members we believe that it is our duty. God in His Word has not only authorized us to do so, but has made it very clear that in such an emergency as this, we are constrained to do so. If we did not address this issue, we would be as "dumb dogs that do not bark." We would be cowards of the worst sort. "If God abhors one sin above another, of which His people are guilty, it is doing nothing in case of an emergency. Indifference and neutrality in a religious crisis is regarded of God as a grievous crime and equal to the very worst type of hostility against God." [1]

What is this emergency that constrains us to action? It is rebellion in the church. When two divisions of the world church reject the authority of the General Conference and violate their own constitutions, it is open rebellion. None are confused over the issue. All of you sitting on the executive committees of these two divisions understand what you have done. All who voted to violate your constitutions and reject the authority of the General Conference know that you are in rebellion against the world church. You may feel it is within your right to do so. And, you would have some ground to stand on if you were obeying the Word of God, but you are not. The distinction between men and women in the home and in the church is a Biblical principle, not a man made tradition as some of you have taught. Therefore, you are in rebellion against God as well as His Church when you attempt to remove this distinction as you have done.

We come to you pleading that you prayerfully consider your actions and reverse them. The division you have created in the church is not of God. The consequences are far more involved than you have imagined. Church leaders around the world are praying as to what will happen next, what will be their response.

There is a battle between right and wrong. This is no time to compromise. It is no time to hide your colors. When the battle wages hot, let no one turn traitor. It is no time to lay down or conceal our weapons, and give Satan the advantage in the warfare. But unless you watch, and keep your garments unspotted from the world, you will not stand true to Jesus. You are to maintain your allegiance, bearing testimony for God and for truth.

Daniel Jackson and Bertil Wiklander, you both led the rebellion. Daniel Jackson, you said, "As Chair I do not know what other way I could have lead the group." [2] There is no excuse for the rebellion. You knew that the General Conference had said "No" over and over. You know what your constitution says about the requirements for conference president, yet you led your division in this rebellion. Don't pretend you did not want it, you did. The only course is to repent of your sin. Jesus stands at the door knocking.

Bertil Wiklander, you plead for this rebellion by saying that Europe wants no such thing as the Bible to set standards of behavior. That in order to gain new church members we must set church standards to the world's standard. [3] What next? Do you want to follow Europe's lead in giving homosexuals equal rights? Do you want to ordain homosexuals? That is where your principles lead. No! We do not lower our standards to meet the world's demands. The world does not belong in the church. Jesus loves you and gave His life for you. Do not continue to resist His Word and His love.

There were 65 faithful church leaders who voted against the rebellion, 61 in the NAD and four in the TED. God has recorded it. We now ask that you do not hide your colors behind a secret ballot. There is a line drawn in the sand. This is a time when all must choose to stand with God if they love Him and want to serve Him.

We are reminded of another rebellion when a man wanted that which God had not appointed him. Korah was appointed to the service of the tabernacle, but he had become dissatisfied with his position and aspired to the dignity of the priesthood. That position was entrusted to Aaron and his house. It had formerly been the responsibility of the firstborn son of every family, not the firstborn daughter. The Bible is clear in regards to the distinction made between men and women in the home and in the church.

Korah was successful in winning over two hundred and fifty princes, men of stature in the congregation. With these strong and influential supporters he felt confident of making a radical change in the government and greatly improving upon the administration of their leaders, Moses and Aaron. So it appears today. Some feel very confident because they are surrounded by 162 "princes" of influence in the church. They believe they can make radical changes in God's church despite what the leaders of the world church have decided. If their vote were unanimous, it would have given these men in both divisions a little more reason to believe they might be right and the world church wrong. But, neither vote was unanimous. There was disagreement in the divisions. This should have been a warning. To separate from the world church when there was not unanimity was a very unwise act.

How does God view rebellion? "And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." Numbers 16:32-35.

Our hope is that those of you who are in rebellion will turn and be reconciled with the church and God. The thought that the NAD and the TED are in harmony with Scripture is not true. The church in General Conference Session decided the issue in 1990 and 1995. First, they said "No" to women's ordination, then they said "No" to allowing each division to decide the matter. At the 1995 Session in Utrecht, Ted N. C. Wilson, then president of the Euro-Asia Division, "emphatically declared that this is a 'potentially divisive issue' making 'widespread factionalism possible." [4] Before the vote, then NAD president Alfred McClure said, "Whatever the outcome, we shall continue to be a loyal part of the church family..." After the vote McClure repeated his promise: "We have done our best to present the proposal as we felt was right. We believe that it is something [ordination of women] that would be very helpful in North America. However, the world Church has spoken. And we believe in the unity of the world Church. We must stay together, and we support the decision of the Church." [5] How far removed from this attitude are the 162 NAD delegates today as they push away from the world church?

The subject of the role distinction in the church has been studied over many years. A study was initiated in 1971 and the 1975 General Conference Session in Vienna, Austria, discussed the issue. At the 1990 GC Session in Indianapolis, Neal Wilson, as the GC president for the previous ten years, spoke to the issue of women's ordination. "An appeal has been made to authorize each division to decide on this matter. This area has also been carefully analyzed, and you see in the report that it is specifically mentioned. Up to this point this church has considered that ordination is something that should be universal in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. We should not fragment the church. The unity of the church is extremely important. It has been felt by the commissions that to give way on this point and to say that every division may do what it chooses to do will lead to pluralism in this church. Anyone who initiates pluralism in this church is certainly going in the wrong direction. The commissions felt that one of the greatest sources we have of keeping this world church together is through our ordained ministers and pastors. That is one of the main functions....And so, because of the lack of clear Biblical guidance and clear Spirit of Prophecy guidance, the commissions have brought to you the recommendation that you have today." [6]

The world church has not changed its position on this subject. A survey was taken prior to the Atlanta GC Session last year and it was decided that there was no point in bringing up the subject at that session. The sentiment had not changed. [7] Just prior to the NAD and the TED voting to reject their constitution which states that there will be role distinction between men and women in that a conference president must be an ordained minister, the General Conference rejected their request for a variance to allow other than ordained ministers to be a conference president. In the face of these decisions by the General Conference, you have rebelled. You have discarded the rule of law and done that which seemeth right in your own eyes, stating that yours is a Scriptural position. It is not.

At Utrecht, Dr. P. Gerard Damsteegt, associate professor of theology, Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary, presented the theological case "against" the women's ordination. "While affirming women's 'equality of nature and worth before God,'" he suggested that women are "different in functional roles." He suggested that the Bible does not allow "spiritual headship" of women either in the family or in the Church. Dr. Damsteegt suggested that those who are "for" female ordination are departing from the traditional Adventist method of Scriptural interpretation. He explained that this proposal conflicts with three basic Bible doctrines, namely, "the doctrine of the Church, the doctrine of Holy Scripture, and the doctrine of the unity of the Church." [8]

We concur with Dr. Damnsteegt, the General Conference, and the many other faithful Seventh-day Adventists that have decided the issue from Scripture. There is to be role distinction in the home and in the church; it is a Biblical principle. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing." Ephesians 5:22-24. Many who err state that Paul was speaking according to the culture of his day. We can see in these following verses that culture has nothing to do with his statement. He is expressing Biblical principle and also states the reason for it.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." 1 Timothy 2:12-15.

Revival and reformation is coming. The call has gone forth and is centered in Christ. The church will not long remain in its Laodicean condition. There is a shaking coming in response to the preaching of vital truth.

The prophet of the Lord expressed a very sad fact: "Soon God's people will be tested by fiery trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove to be base metal." [9] This rebellion is one such "fiery trial". It will test God's people. All must choose on which side of the line they will stand.

"When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason." [10]

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. [11]

Has not the Lord Jesus sent message after message of rebuke, of warning, of entreaty, to His church? Have not His counsels been despised and rejected? Have not His delegated messengers been treated with scorn and their words been received as idle tales? Christ sees that which man does not see. He sees the sins which, if not repented of, will exhaust the patience of a long-suffering God. Christ cannot take up the names of those who are satisfied in their own self-sufficiency.

The great Redeemer represents Himself as a heavenly merchantman, laden with riches, calling from house to house, presenting His priceless goods, and saying,

"I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." Revelation 3:18-20.

Let us consider our condition before God; let us heed the counsel of the True Witness. Let none of us be filled with prejudice, as were the Jews, that light may not come into our hearts. Let it not be necessary for Christ to say of us as He did of them, "Ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life."

The precious message of the righteousness of Christ will bring revival and reformation. We thank God that there are souls who realize that they are in need of something which they do not possess--gold of faith and love, white raiment of Christ's righteousness, eyesalve of spiritual discernment. If you possess these precious gifts, the temple of the human soul will not be like a desecrated shrine. Brothers and sisters sitting as leaders of these two divisions, we call upon you in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth to work where God works. Now is the day of gracious opportunity and privilege. Accept Christ as your Leader and return to Him and your church.

[1] 3Testimonies 280

[2] http://www.scribd.com/doc/75197103/Statement-2011-Year-End-Mtg%E2%80%94J...

[3] http://www.ted-adventist.org/news/to-avoid-misunderstanding
http://www.ted-adventist.org/features-and-analysis/leadership-and-ordina...

[4] Adventist Review, General Conference Bulletin 1995

[5] ibid.

[6] Adventist Review July 13, 1990 pg 12, 13. [typographical errors corrected]

[7] http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3249

[8] Adventist Review, General Conference Bulletin 1995

[9] Last Day Events 180

[10] 5Testimonies 136

[11] 2Selected Messages 380

Go back and look again at the petition. At least 50 have signed so far. It will grow.

Perhaps they should use this as a recruiting or theme song!

http://home.comcast.net/~dannylgriffin/sheetmusic/FirstTimothy.pdf

Letter? It's a JOURNAL!!!

That petition's signatures list is growing, Horatio, but, so far, the expression 'at a snail's pace' is unusually apt.