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Sat, 09/08/2012
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San Diego Adventist Forum
Sigve Tonstad, MD, PhD, Associate Professor of Religion, Loma Linda
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The more things change the more yada yada yada
Used to load and unload projectors and screens and easels and charts for evangelistic series back in the day.
One of the items missing in the illustration is waking up in the morning to see if there was that cloud in the sky......
Remind me again, what is the good news?
"By their fruits you shall know them". You Spectrum guys, by your fruits are, indeed, showing who you are and who you serve...
The Bottom-line is the most important question ever asked on Spectrum. Thank you!
The Bible answers that question boldly yet evangelism cable or tent always avoids it. Tom Z
This is satire, folks. And it is good. Adventists do have a sense of humor and can be as self-deprecating as other faith communities.
If Spectrum had more of this at least we would know that the constant attacks on the church are for humorous purposes. Most of the articles do seem like a joke gone awry anyway. Like a writer who claims his essay was not about "gay anything" when he started discussing a gay issue and all the comments that followed showed the readers knew he was dealing with a gay issue.
SDA Caricatures, where did our 1798 go?
Aren't TV sitcoms aimed at the protracted adolescent age group of those who create silly nonsense like this?
A woman was driving down a busy suburban road when a car sped up and suddenly pulled in front of her at the traffic lights.
Enraged, the woman started sounding her horn, winding down the window, she began to hurl abuse as she shook her fist at the driver of the car in front of her. As the light turned green, the woman accelerated hard and overtook at the first opportunity before slamming on her brakes to give the driver a taste of his own medicine".
As she continued her gesturing and bad-mannered driving, the car she was harassing suddenly lit up with blue and red flashing lights and the woman realised it was an unmarked police car.The policeman arrested the woman, took her to the police station where she was photographed, finger printed and placed in a holding cell.
After a number of hours, the policeman opened the cell door and escorted the woman to the front counter where she was given her keys and personal effects along with a traffic infringement notice.
The policeman then said "I am sorry to put you though all this for a simple traffic infringement but madam, when you overtook me and began to hurl abuse at me from your window, I noticed a sticker on your car advertising the fact you go to a Christian church. I also noticed you had the Christian symbol of a fish and a sticker asking to "honk if you love Jesus" as well as a crucifix hanging from your rear vision mirror.
When I saw all this, I naturally assumed you had stolen the vehicle"
I think I have attended 4 of the usual SDA evangelism outreach efforts in 4 decades. Yes, this stuff was presented in all 4 of them. However, it made up a small portion of the whole package presentations.
What I wonder is...other than sabbath school reviewing these numbers game... how often or what portion of sermons deal with this?
As far as I have heard...attending a few dozen SDA churches, this numbers game gets very little exposure. Fine with me.
What I find pathetic are the constant, shallow, inept, low bible exposure, vitamin therapy, VERBALLY ABUSIVE "you suck,try harder sermons"
Ted Wilson, is pushing revival and reform???
Get the pastors to stop the sermon nonsense and get them to really expound the scriptures..especially the NEW Testament.
The latter rain does not fall on ignorant idiots.
"The latter rain does not fall on ignorant idiots."
Does the latter rain fall on rude people? :\
I thought this cartoon was funny. Sometimes we need to just laugh at ourselves, and then see where we can improve.
Satire is fine when the person creating the satire shares mutual love and respect for the person he/she is satiring. It is very damaging when that is not the case. Some how I get the feeling this type of stuff falls into the latter category.
Land of Goshen, golly Moses!
I can't believe I forgot one of the most important parts of the equation:
the 28 Fundamentals!
Oops! Can I do it over please?
<3 Adventist Caricaturist
Adventist Caricaturist
The 28 aren't funny--just a few. A number are very close to the Y! I'm glad you left it out. Tom Z
rude?
I remember sitting in a SS class going over an episode in the gospel about Jesus and a hearing class member saying that JESUS was...rude
What was life like before the fundamental beliefs came into existance?
"What I find pathetic are the constant, shallow, inept, low bible exposure, vitamin therapy, VERBALLY ABUSIVE "you suck,try harder sermons""
Now that's what I call a loving, Christian critique...
Why thank you....
sure beats complacency, apathy, passivity, indifference.
For the professionals who ..might..care
http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation/dp/07642...
I have this one at home...very enlightening.
That is a good book, Jim.
"What was life like before the fundamental beliefs came into existance?"
You and I will never know unless we "come out of her". Remember that Christ said we worship HIM in vain when we teach for commandments the doctrines of men.
Pretty sad when a church commissioned to preach the three angels messages can no longer do it because it would be against their beliefs. I could travel the world but unless I figured these things out first all I would be is scattering.
Henry:
The question should be what was it like before Answers to Questions on Doctrine was published? That is the big bang in Adventism--it has been down hill ever since. Every man's hand against his brother.
You can blame the Australians. Roy Anderson was a lead author.
Brinsmeads came across to fight. Des Ford came to cool down the Brinsmeads, the Standish twins went after Brinsmead and Ford then Smuts. The Standish twins got Keith Parmenter's blood in a roil that reached all the way to a cookie factory in Tenn soon after it hit a high a high pressure zone in the Rockies. Then atomic fission. Now every man/woman is doing what is right in his/her own eyes.
So a new witch hunt is in the offing. Starting this time in Michigan.
Why 28 Fundamental Beliefs because of Answers to Questions on Doctrine. Just as soon as someone draws a line in the sand there is bound to be a fight. Tom Z
An eye-opening book is "The Bondage of the Mind." Too many are still in bondage to a fantasy.
"Satire is fine when the person creating the satire shares mutual love and respect for the person he/she is satiring. It is very damaging when that is not the case. Some how I get the feeling this type of stuff falls into the latter category."
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
What a great work this website could do if it were not so antagonistic to certain church personnel as well as to doctrines taught by the SDA church. God is the Judge and each person is accountable for his influence.
Maranatha
Hey guys lets not confuse Maths and Numerology!
I'm seriously offended about the abuse of Math!!!
Well slightly..
Tom - what a concise church history of the last 50 + years! All in ONE paragraph!
Like you, I was there. I watched the scenario unfold - I recognize the players you cite and remember their parts. Most of my contemporaries (to say nothing of those younger) have no clue as to how we got to where we are today.
However, I heard someone say today on NPR - it's not the lack of knowledge that is the problem - it's the interpretation one gives to the facts/events.
Not only do most young Adventists not know their history, they know even less of the history of the Christian church. Where, in the SDA educational system, is the history of the Christian church taught?
Adventist history may be required in the college curriculum, but to begin with a religion only less than two centuries old, is to omit the struggles in the beginning of Christianity, as if Adventism sprang from outer space.
Comment Deleted
For future reference, all comments made under pseudonyms using fake email accounts will be removed. -Website Editors
Nice job, Adventist Cartoonist! You always do a good job. Thanks for a chance to laugh at ourselves, while also pointing out a good reminder - the Y? question that should always come first!
If you have to use math to proclaim the gosepl, you are doing something very wrong. I love the cartoon.
Comment Deleted
For future reference, all comments made under pseudonyms using fake email accounts will be removed. -Website Editors
Why do Real Cartoonists & Cathy A. Boone have similar language idiosyncrasies?
Hey Tom.., here's an Aussie joke for you....
On a plane bound for Sydney the flight attendant approached a blonde sitting in the first class section and requested that she move to economy since she did not have a first class ticket.
The blonde replied "I'm blonde, I'm beautiful, I'm going to Sydney and I'm not moving."
Not wanting to argue with a customer the flight attendant asked the co-pilot to speak with her. He went to talk with the woman asking her to please move out of the first class section.
Again, the blonde replied, "I'm blonde, I'm beautiful, I'm going to Sydney and I'm not moving." The co-pilot returned to the cockpit and asked the captain what should he do.
The captain said, "I'm married to a blonde and I know how to handle this." He went to the first class section and whispered in the blonde's ear.
She immediately jumped up and ran to the economy section mumbling to herself, "Why didn't anyone just say so?" Surprised, the flight attendant and the co-pilot asked what he said to her that finally convinced her to move from her seat.
He said, "I told her the first class section wasn't going to Sydney..."
Make your own cultural substitutions (blond woman is traditional SDA 1844 theology, etc.)
(Plagiarized from http://www.akrweb.com/joke/blonde-2.html )
It is obvious that the cartoonist is sadly ignorant of knowledge of both mathematics and evangelism.
I think the cartoons are hilarious! Sometimes we just need to lighten up and laugh!!!
...ooops...forgot my last name...
By Elaine
"Where, in the SDA educational system, is the history of the Christian church taught?"
I teach Religion 10 in the SDA school system in British Columbia, Canada and have been teaching church history for years. One of the two grade 10 textbooks covers the Christian church from the apostles to the 19th century religious revival, then the history of the SDA church.
I love learning about church/midieval history.
Graeme
Thanks: great story--loved it. I think the cultural substitution is easy. I recall a week of prayer at LLU. The evangelist was a theologian from Andrews. His topic was: "Help now mine unbelief". An entire week--actually 8 days and 7 evenings. I attended all--with very little content of inspiriation. When the theologian returned to Andrews, he rendered his resignation and joined another faculty outside of Adventism. His only problem was he left 8 days too late.
I hope and pray that he found a belief system that made the Christ event central to his life and mission.
I ain't riding first class but I am on the right flight. Thank you for a good laugh and a great insight. Regards. Tom Z.
The whole question of doctrine boils down to 'does doctrine save' ??
Take the 1844 question does it really matter if the Christ went into the most holy place after he ascended after his crucifixion or in 1844?
Problem I see is the church uses this a justification for it's existance wereas it exists to proclaim the 3 angels message.
The church gets side tracked over this matter and majors in minor issues.
Corran
It matters because the entire framework of Adventism is built upon that hypothesis. The Sabbath. But particularly the concept of an infused Righteousness right out of Trent. Which leads to a final perfect generation to vindicate God. Unadbulterated basphemy. Please note that that Rev. 14;6- declares that Babylon has fallen--It fell the moment Christ cried out: "It is Finished". So for Seventh-day Adventists to lay clain to the Three Angels Messages then twist it to an end-time, rather than to the first century A.D.
Yes it really matters. It has created a heterodox soteriology and eschatology under the duise of "new light"
It was the basis of the purge of the 1980's
It is as old as the serpent in the garden: "Ye shall become as Gods!" If not in the garden at the end of time. Run don't walk away from such nonsense. Tom Z.
I would like to see a better presentation of Biblical numbers, if you think it exists. This is largely a mockery of the Bible, not of Adventists.
God bless,
Rich
God bless,
Rich
Rich
It is not a mockery of the Bible. It is a spoof of misuse of Scripture--to serve one's bias or disjointed agenda.
The biggest farce was Ellen White's claim that God deliberately held His hand over certain passages so that Wm. Miller would get it wrong. If man makes a mistake--blame God.
It started with Adam--"The woman Thou gavest me!"
Tom Z.
Mr. Zwemer,
I won't even bother asking why you are bringing this up.
As we all know, the disciples under Jesus' direction proclaimed that, "the kingdom of God was at hand." We also know that what the missionaries believed, and what their hearers were confronted with when they received the message Jesus sent through the disciples was tainted by their presuppositions of the kingdom of heaven, which Jesus didn't bother to correct before sending them out.
The Master full-well knew the disciples' misunderstanding, yet sent them to proclaim the message anyway. The full meaning would be revealed anyway, when the hearts of all were tested to see who would stick around when the loaves and fishes were all gone and Jesus didn't want to make any more.
It was the truth nonetheless and tested God's servants when the time was fulfilled and the event happened, but not in the way man would have liked: according to his presuppositions.
God bless,
Rich
God bless,
Rich
So,
I'm certainly available to speak with about my Evangelistic presentations. I do appreciate the fact that you paid so much attention to the details of my material. There is a question of sincerity and the taint of ridicule weaved into your cheap entertainment version of religious humor.
Maybe you could stroke the Evangelicals more openly by joining the Seventh-day Baptists? Just a thought... I mean, wouldn't you be more happy there? Is it just that you aren't happy except to know you are destroying true Seventh-day Adventism?
Your Friend and Teacher,
Mugsy.
Hey Mugsy!!
It's good to hear from you man. I feel sad that you called this cheap though. It's actually expensive if U wanna know the truth. My materials and labor and time, not cheap buddy.
I'm also sad that U think this is destroying true Adventism. If True Adventism can't even handle some goofy drawings, imagine how rough it's gonna be when the Time of Trouble comes!!
Oh boy. We're in serious trouble.
Tell the wives and kids hello for me!
<3 Adventist Caricaturist
Those who cannot find humor in portrayals of themselves are to "deadly serious" and are no fun to be around. Laughter, at your own expense is a sign of maturity.
It's all about fun isn't it? Right before Christ comes let's all have a big party right? Show him our great concern for our condition by just letting go and having a cheap laugh at his expense...
Is that the faith of Jesus?
By the way, Sister Elaine, Mugsy Waxler is a pretend name that I made up. It's a good evangelist name. Mugs Waxler.
I don't know who this person is that's using the Mugsy nom de plume, but that's OK. I'll still be their friend. I love ALL Adventists.
<3 Adventist Caricaturist
How convenient a thing to make a fictitious SDA Evangelist name and cartoon persona and when real people want to be heard but remain anonymous their posts are deleted. What a nice virtual veto power you enjoy over there in your ideological cocoon.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
I enjoyed your cartoon very much...you used humor to blast open an issue that has troubled me for some time.
Why is it that the Seventh-day Adventist churches uses the complex details of those Revelation and Daniel prophecies to draw people into the church anyway?
By way of contrast I would like to point out my personal observations while attending services at the Willow Creek Community Church in the Chicago area. It was over 10 years ago that I used to go there for the prayer meeting services, with approx 1000 in attendance on a Wed. pm. The sermons were very focused on the Gospels, very uplifting in the sense of Jesus in the present in each of our lives through the stories of the NT.
If we looked closer would we see that these non-denominational churches that are growing so quickly in various cities focus on Jesus as the message, and not on prophecy?
I LOVE the cartoons and the jokes. Makes life fun. I'll bet God gets a good laugh out of them too. Keep 'em coming.
Life is tough enough for all 7 billion of us without someone telling us we can't laugh often.
The definition of a religious fanatic. Someone who worries that somewhere, some rebellious sinner is having a good time
You're an evangelist, Mugsy?
I hope you don't run off with another woman and leave your poor unsuspecting wife like a couple of evangelists did after holding meetings in our church. One found a gal in Vegas after some meetings there. Walked out on his wife and children.
Spent a whole night talking against jewelry. I was tempted to remind him that he had worn jewelry every night. His neck tie, you know. It's nothing but a necklace. An expensive decoration that can cost more than a pair of earrings and serves no purpose but to hang there.
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