Jared

Michael now belongs to the ages. Give him the rest, he seemed to long for. God is His judge as He is ours. Our commentary will have none effect on that judgment. Few if any, have handled celebrity status well; hardly any at that young age.

To this old man, Michael contribution to music was a total negative. His showmanship was contemporary and above the crowd. May he rest in peace. Tom

Check out this op-ed in the Jerusalem Post by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, whom Jackson refers to above. It's basically his take on Jackson's spirituality. It was a helpful reminder to me of what's actually important.

David Hamstra
apokalupto

David,

Thanks for passing that piece on to us. Some poignant insights there.

Tom,

I might add to what you've written that in a sense, Michael Jackson also belongs to all of us. He has impacted culture in ways that very few individuals ever will do, and in as much as society shaped who he became, he has also shaped and will continue to shape societies around the world.

As for commentary on his life, you'll note that the article on Beliefnet.com purports to be the words of MJ himself, rather than commentary on him. As such, it provides helpful insights into the thought life of somebody who constantly seemed to have been searching for balance between limelight and divine light, between publicity and community.

Those tensions, undoubtedly, lie at the heart of the lives of many public figures (and many private citizens too).

There. That's some commentary.

I am amazed at Jackson's insight into his own personal issues and the difficulties of being raised as a child celebrity, as revealed in the quotation you used, Jared. It seems in contrast with what we typically think about pop stars, as there is so much shallowness in the show-biz world. Thank you for sharing Michael's relationship with the Sabbath and a bit about his spirituality, which goes much deeper than I realized. It reveals an ice-berg tip of the struggle he faced in trying to maintain a balance and gives us the opportunity to empathize with him and see him as a real human being. Thanks again.

No doubt that once in heaven, we will be shocked to see people there that we, because of our human nature, never thought they will be in God's kingdom. Because, God is love, and His love is unlimited. Praise the Lord.

Roberto

Personally, what strikes me most about human beings is how we know others more then dare know ourselves. The knowledge of others either devalues or make our value go up. We are elevated by their accomplishements or we sense a diminishing return in our own selves. The fraility of others could give us a sense of "I am not bad". Their success can awaken a sense of "how they cheat, how greedy".

For good or bad Michael Jackson life impacted more people than I can ever make a dent. He might not have pontificatd the Three Angel message, Adventist style, but he did something global. He spoke of children, love, unity, wars, diversity (something we Adventist should never claim to being close to having a monopoly given our glaring shame of Black and White conferences in the 21st Century), his music "we are the world" did more good for the world than most of us can ever do.

His flaws speak to our our human flaws and sin-bent-nature. The only different is that I have not found a stage to show my dirty laundry as MJ did.

He is married several times just like most Christians.

He is human. He had Gospel need like I do.

God know those who are His.

Heaven belongs to God and all entries will be entered by those whose tickets will be marked with common phrase: GRACE.

Kemboi

Kemboi (and others too)

I appreciate your taking time to share such thoughtful comments! I especially liked this line:

"Heaven belongs to God and all entries will be entered by those whose tickets will be marked with common phrase: GRACE."

Thanks.

What a waste to use valuable cyberspace to discuss Jackson. Tom mentioned his total negative contribution to music. It's one time I can agree with Tom. And I would add a total negative contribution to our culture.

And I would not have expected anything else from "Your Friend".

I'm not a fan of Michael's music, but I do feel much sympathy for him as a human being. Although I was unhappy about the amount of time spent on him in the TV news, I learned more about him and realize what a complicated and difficult life he had. Thanks for sharing this about the meaning of Sabbath to him, Jared.

What a wonderful tribute to the Sabbath and its powerful contribution and renewing power. Thank you, Jared.

Jared,

Thanks for the article. Very interesting and thought provoking.

I grew up loving the music of the Jackson 5, and then Off The Wall and Thriller became the very definition of my late teen years. Wonderful and Fun music to this day! I still listen to these cds as I dance through the house cleaning...makes the job a bit easier ;-)

No matter the many opinions of Michael Jackson's tragic personal life, to me, his music in the 80's indeed made him the King of Pop!

~Karen

Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus Christ. It amazes me that SDA and others hang on to the 24 hour period rather that the MAN with the real power to give rest and restoration. He was the fulfillment of the Sabbath that was a shadow Col 2:16, 17. There was a new day set for REST, it was TODAY, which is the Gospel. Jackson's life hardly represented accepting the Gospel, where the TRUE REST lies in Jesus Christ and emulating his life.

Rondo,

Your points are well taken. To the extent that people substitute form for substance, something is amiss.

I would ask this question--do Sabbath and Gospel and Jesus need to be separate and mutually exclusive? Is that even biblical? I would stop short of saying that Sabbatarians of any stripe neglect or miss out on Gospel. Indeed weekly rest can be and for many is Gospel.

As for Michael Jackson (or anybody else), the way Kemboi put things above seems to me a very worthwhile way to speak to successes and failures both. Of course you will have already noted those comments and the portion I already highlighted above.

"And I would add a total negative contribution to our culture"

How about, look at what our culture did to this human? Why does our culture keep doing this, is it a deep seeded idolatry problem in us that these people are the victims of?

"Tom mentioned his total negative contribution to music. It's one time I can agree with Tom. And I would add a total negative contribution to our culture."

Oh, give me a break already. If you want to complain about someone who is a REAL threat to society and young people, bag on Marilyn Manson, a professed Satanist.

Personally, I do not believe Jackson is a molester. Weird, yes. A freak, yes. Eccentric, most definitely. But a cunning, predatory child abuser? Naw. Yeah, he did allow them to sleep in his bed with him which was a bone-headed judgment call to be sure. But I honestly do not believe it went farther than that. McCauley Caulkin vouched for him and I don't think he had a vested interest either way.

It was extortion, plain and simple. No one who has that much money is going to avoid it. It was only a matter of time before someone found a way to make a grab for his millions, and his careless fraternizing with young boys opened the door and left him wide open. What in the blazes was he thinking?

To the Above

I regret of having writing a line that could be "cut and pasted" into something I didn't say. I said, that Michael now belongs to the ages. God is his judge, not us. Let us let him rest in peace.

I then added the line about my feeling about his music. I do listen to popular music at times. But the classics Mozart, to Aaron Copland are preferred. I went on to say, that Michael was a master showman.

I did not infer or mention his life style or the charges made against him in respect for my first counsel. "Judge not that ye be not judged." The sins of Michael are not the sins of Tom. But Michael and Tom are both sinners, We have equal need of a Savior. I hope Michael found Him.

If one wants to be, or can't stand to be without being a critic--try the Gov. of S.C. for utter stupidity.

For 50% of the cost of air fare to South America. He could have gotten a $1000.00 a night call girl in Atlanta, been taken to a upscale suite by the service elevator, paid the bell boy a weeks wages and have been in cell phone range of his office the entire time. Sin is forgivable--Stupidity? Tom

Shmuley Boteach as a spiritual adviser? He was also involved with Dr. Laura for a time. I got a good idea how useful he was when I heard her tell someone struggling with a burden of guilt to "just carry it." "Carry your guilt around." Good advice? Hardly, but that's what some teachers of Judaism have to offer hurting souls, "Carry your guilt around."

Although the pedophile issue is a sensitive one, people need to be aware of how these people operate. When law enforcement personnel described Neverland as simply a place for grooming potential victims, a lot of things started making sense.

The first accusations went away with a large cash payment. Those interested in the subject should read the documents r/t the first accusations, the ones that went away after a huge cash payment.

Once the gays have what they want, the pedophiles will be next.

There are some people so disturbed that they figure if someone like MJ prefers kids, maybe it is not so bad after all. Lot of people within the RC communion like that. If the priest they knew and loved prefers children, maybe it's not so bad, that's how they think.

Laugh and scorn now. Check back in 40 years. I hope I'm wrong.

Tom,

Your statement struck me quite different to YourFriend's take on it, you weren't having a go at MJ personally. I thought you were addressing our vulture like tendencies. At the same time you were showing respect, despite not liking his music you were able to do that. Your thoughts resonated with me.

Wasn't Michael Jackson's "Sabbath" on Sunday? http://apoloblogology.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-and-sabbath.h...

You can find a reprint of the original here:
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2000/12/My-Childhood-My-Sabbath-My-Freed...

Just reread the title of this post and have decided that for MJ "normalcy" probably is nothing that I could identify with.

"Although the pedophile issue is a sensitive one, people need to be aware of how these people operate. When law enforcement personnel described Neverland as simply a place for grooming potential victims, a lot of things started making sense."

That's your evidence? Pretty flimsy!

Please. It's obvious that the man had some serious childhood baggage. His father Joe was an abusive lout. His maturity level was stunted, anyone can see that. Between his abusive past and fame at an early age, it's a wonder he turned out 'normal' on any level. His incessant plastic surgeries, bleached skin and straightened hair also reveal he was ashamed with his appearance and possibly resented being African American. He had issues.

But he also had a heart for kids, loved them and wanted to help them have a childhood that was better than his was. Thus, Neverland and the extravagent gifts and treatment. Maybe he was living vicariously through them, who knows, and there was definite overcompensation happening. But it's clear his judgment and discernment were horrible and he probably didn't even realize how badly it looked for him. Where were his advisers to break into his insulated world let him know that he was placing himself in a compromising situation? Those parents used their kids to get to his money and they won, because Jackson did indeed settle financially with them. Which, by the way, raises another red flag in my mind. If my child had been molested, you can bet no amount of money would stop me from taking that person right to the limits of court justice. No monetary amount could 'compensate' for such a violation.

Nope, it was extortion.

Indeed, God is his judge and I may be wrong as well. But know this: If the accusations are untrue, wrong and false (which I believe they are), this world owes him one hell of an apology.

Too bad it's now too late to give it.

Hansen, sometimes you make it hard for me not to simply resort to name-calling instead of responding to your post. For the moment, I'll do neither (Oh wait, I just did).

Night dweller, It's not really my desire to defile the dead. Fact is, few people really know and it is too easy to descend into the abyss of gossip, hearsay, and so forth.

I've seen in the Adventist community older adults with an unusual interest in young children. And there have been incidents and accusations enough to cause wise parents concern.

In the MJ cases, parental abdication of common sense brought about the situations which comprised their children's safety.

As one of MJ's sister's said, "If a 35 year old man who was not Michael Jackson was sleeping with young boys, you wouldn't like him."

This is in answer to no one in particular and addresses various posts placed here.

Andrae and Sandra Crouch visited Michael Jackson as recently as 3 weeks ago or 3 weeks before his death and he told them he wanted his music to be more spiritual and asked for prayer regarding the anointing of the Holy Spirit for his upcoming tour. They said there was no "sinner's prayer" but we know as SDAs that repentance does not have to be a public prayer to God, but can be private.

The Andrae and Sandra Crouch interview can be googled and I would provide a link, but I am not sure if links are allowed here. I hope I have not inadvertently left any in this post.

Michael's Jehovah's Witness upbringing taught him the correct belief on the state of the dead, that it is a sleep. He also sought out teaching on the Jewish Sabbath, so he did learn about the Sabbath. The fact that he realized his music needed to be spiritual and he sought that in his last days, shows me he was changing and feeling his need for the Lord. Martin Luther, the reformer, not Martin Luther King, never learned the truth of the Sabbath during the Reformation, but I believe he will be saved. I do not know enough about Martin Luther King's beliefs to speak about him, but it appeared he was trying to do good work for those who were oppressed. We know God judges us where we are and the path we are on and the knowledge we have and how we obey that knowledge. William Miller never knew the Sabbath truth, but he will no doubt be saved. Miller was an Adventist, i.e. he believed in the second coming of Christ, but he had not learned the Sabbath truth. He had nothing to do with the forming of our church, but had an influence on the founders of our church or perhaps better said, a shared belief regarding the second coming of Christ.

The Crouch choir sang Michael's favorite religious song at the memorial regarding seeing the King. I think some non-religious attendees confused it to be a song about the King of Pop at first. This was simply a moniker given to him by his PR guy, Bob Jones, such as Frank Sinatra being the Chairman of the Board, Elvis Presley being the King of Rock 'n Roll, etc. It was a PR gimmick, not a belief that he was the king. In fact, MJ was very insecure about himself. He was always surprised when people liked him. Music was all he knew and so that was his living. He was willing to throw the album Thriller away due to it not pleasing his church, but his disclaimer regarding his non-belief in the occult seemed to appease everyone. I honestly think his downfall started with his association with Quincy Jones due to Quincy's beliefs. And for the record, Michael never converted to Islam. This has been confirmed by the followers of Islam. That was another rumor put out by the media. Everyone who was alleged to be at his Islam ceremony has been proved to be in other parts of the country when this was alleged to have taken place. He no doubt looked into this due to Jermaine being a follower of Islam, BUT, MJ did not convert.

We know from the parable of Matthew 20 that even those workers who came in at the last hour received the same pay as those who began work at the beginning of the day, so we know even those who are converted just before death, such as the thief on the cross, can receive eternal life.

If you read the evidence on Michael's trial, which I have, you would know there was no evidence against him whatsoever and that is the reason he was found not guilty for all 9 counts. You would see he was basically persecuted for the good he did for children. Christ says His followers will all have to bear their own cross as He did. MJ paid for his second accuser's cancer treatment and that accuser is still in remission. The second accuser's mother had filed sexual molestation charges against others before she filed those charges against Michael. She dropped the charges when she got money. She stopped getting money from MJ then she brought charges against him. You would know that she, Janet Arvizo, sought out the same attorney that got the first accuser, Jordan Chandler, millions of dollars. You would know that Michael never wanted to settle with the first accuser but his insurance company made him settle and would not give him the choice of going to trial. You would know there was no child porn found EVER; that the first accuser described MJ's private parts incorrectly (Chandler said MJ was circumcised and MJ was not) and that the first accuser's father, Even Chandler, assaulted his own son, Jordan Chandler, with a deadly weapon and mace in 2005 and there are court records to prove it. Also a pedophile would use his own children as well as strangers and we know from the testimony of Paris Jackson and the evidence of how stable MJ's children are, that these children were loved and not abused.

Regarding the law which includes the Sabbath, we know that faith saves us since grace paid our penalty (death) so we are no longer under the penalty (death) of the law. We know Christ lives in us if we obey the law from our hearts, not just out of a duty, thus the meaning of circumcision of our hearts, not a physical circumcision. If we have faith in our Creator, then we have faith in what He tells us to do, therefore we are obedient to His law. Faith saves us, but our works make our faith stronger. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep Sunday holy and nowhere are we commanded to keep a virtual Sabbath, i.e. that we are now living in the rest called the Sabbath. We are commanded to keep the Seventh-"day" Holy. What were done away with at the cross were the ordinances of the sacrifices and the penalty of the law which is "death without a resurrection." Thus, we are no longer under the penalty of the law which was death, but the law is still our mirror which shows us if we are sinning and is the way to know if Christ lives in us. The wages of sin are still death as the New Testament tells us long after Christ's death and resurrection.

If obedience to God was not important, Christ would have changed the law and there would never have been a need for Salvation and Christ need not have died on the cross. God would have told Eve she could eat of every fruit and obeying Him was not necessary. But, God knows what is best for us and we show we have faith in Him by obeying His commands. The commandments are there to keep order and to show us what sin is and is not. If we do not keep those commandments, we are sinning and it cannot be an outward showing of obedience, but it must be from our heart, otherwise, Christ is not living through us. We know what happens when sin is allowed to rule as is evidenced by our world. If there is no law of God, what results is the world we have today. God tells us in the new earth, sin will reign no more because only those that overcometh and keep His commandments will be in the new earth.

Revelation 21
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

I never stopped believing in my SDA beliefs, but I stopped going to church for quite awhile. After going back to church, I was shocked at how much some of our church members had blended with the world and were no longer a peculiar or different people for God. We need to go back to our first love and quit straddling the fence.

Revelation 2
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

When Jesus was on earth, He gave us the example to follow and He had complete faith in His Father and obeyed Him without question, always praying, "not My will but Thine." Let's remember the description of Christ's bride, His church and return to our correct beliefs. Let's also allow Christ to judge the hearts and let's quit judging others since we cannot see inside the human heart.

Christ's church will not be at unity with the world but have a peculiar aka different doctrine. There is one church on earth that professes the belief in the following text:

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Remember, Jesus' faith in His Father kept Him in strict obedience to His Father because He trusted in Him. Our obedience to God's law shows how much faith we have in Him.

Regarding Ellen White and her alleged plagiarism. What was plagiarized were historical accounts, which every single person uses when they account historical events. In her days, you did not have to give a bibliography footnote for every time you quoted an historical event. She never plagiarized her testimonies. In fact, when historical events were implemented into her writings, they were put there by her secretary who was instructed by EGW to check what historians had said when speaking about historical events, but her visions and religious instruction were never accused of being plagiarized.

When preaching to the world, we take the Bible, not EGW's writings, but when speaking against the writings of EGW which were inspired by the same Divine Person, the Holy Ghost aka the Holy Sprit, Whom inspired the writers of the Bible, remember the following text:

Luke 12:10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

I would highly recommend listening to the 5 DVDs by Brian Neumann titled, "Changes in Our Religion." You can find them at the website for Amazing Discoveries which is an SDA site. He also has some DVDs regarding secular music and music in our church. I would also recommend listening to the videos by Walter Veith and you can listen to most of Walter Veith's videos for free at the Amazing Discoveries TV site. I am not affiliated with them, but have been greatly blessed by them.

Remember Lucifer, now known as Satan, led the heavenly choir, so he is well acquainted with music and how it affects people, so it is no wonder he uses it now to get people under his spell.

I believe we as SDAs need to be careful of the music we listen to, but for the record I wanted to state what I had found regarding Michael Jackson and it did appear he felt his need for the Lord and I do hope he gave his heart to the Lord. I think it was his desire to do good in the world, but like all of us, we are human and we are all sinners. When we accept Christ's cloak of righteousness, only then can we approach His Father, but when accepting, we must be repentant and sin no more. The ten commandments are our mirror to show us if we are no longer sinning due to allowing Christ to live in our hearts. Our biggest work is submission to God's will and not our own will. Faith is unseen, so we step out in faith by obeying God. Faith is not a feeling, but obeying the principles set forth for us in God's Word. When we are truly converted, we desire to keep the law and it is no longer a burden to us.

By the way, La Toya recanted what she had said about MJ and admitted to being influenced by her ex-husband as he admitted too, that it was a ploy to sell a book and to make money off of it.

>Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus Christ. It amazes me that SDA and others hang on to the 24 hour period rather that the MAN with the real power to give rest and restoration. He was the fulfillment of the Sabbath that was a shadow Col 2:16, 17.

The Sabbath was never a shadow of anything; it is a memorial. For more details on Col. 2:16-7 see the study at: http://666man.net/Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html