I have been convicted to get a satallite dish. Is 3ABN still on Sky Angel?

The above piece I assume was to be a bit of satire on the GC as a bunch of stuffed shirts and that 3ABN has completely lost its way or both. I seldom agree with either the G.C. or 3ABN
but I see no therapetic value in such blander. It ranks right up there with Orthooxymoron's take on Loma Linda.

Both tell me, Spectrum is running out of substantial material in a world gone made.

Oil, Money, blood, drugs, crime, porno, baby stealing by murder, the micro problems and the macro problems should be overwhelming to any sensitive editor.

Maybe once again, the Fullness of Time has Come. Where is that clarion call--particularly in the week we studied John the Baptist?

By the way, I;ve been to Papua, New Guinea. 48 hours is long enough--something like Berkley with more humidity and a little more class. Tom

Like the New Yorker's cartoon cover of the Obamas, satire is too little appreciated. From Jonathan Swift, the master of satire, I salute you, Alex, for a great bit of humor with all the right nuances and names! We need to lighten up and laugh, even at ourselves and there's lots more material yet!

Did anyone see the cartoon years ago of kangaroos in a courtroom with the judge saying, "and now...about the matter of Desmond Ford..."?

Or how about the cartoon showing a man pointing at a prophecy chart, as the second coming is occuring, and exclaiming, "You're Early!"?

Some angry church members were caught singing, "The church's one foundation, the Ellen White Estate!" And "Dare to be a Daniel! Dare to stand alone! Dare to think of something new! Dare to make it known!" The instigators called it catharsis, but they still got in a lot of trouble, and rightfully so.

Straight guys(conference men or otherwise) can probably learn something from the sensitivity which gays exhibit. But guys don't have to be gay to be sensitive and refined. By the way, did you ever see a conference man smile or laugh?

Elaine,

Agreed! The reaction to the New Yorker's cover shows that we take ourselves too seriously. Same in the church.

Ortho,

Some funny stuff! Thanks!

Frank

For a number of years I had a cartoon from Christianity Today in my Bible, showing a parishoner who had asked a question, and the pastor replying "Yes, that was the original reason our denomination started, but we no longer believe it today."

Naturally, the first program is my favorite. The five Queer Guys could all be recruited from relatives of GC leaders.

"Desperate Pastor's Wives" could also share what humiliating thing their husbands said about them in the sermon that day.

Hope you send this to 3ABN!

Christianity Today years ago ran a cartoon on Martin Luther in which the caption said in quotes: "Here I stand for the moment I think!"

I guess you guys shoot low because you think they are riding ponies.

Name one thread in recent weeks that deals directly with salvation in Jesus Christ.

Spectrum certainly is correct in presenting a rainbow of views on a range of topics. But the theme should alway be brought back to substantial issues of redemption. Otherwise it is just happy hour.

I believe denegration of other's views and practices is over the top. I have family who are Romab Catholic, Sevebth-day Adventists, Southern Baptist, Anglican,Dutch Reform, Methodist and Presbyterian. We worship together, we laugh together but we don't disparage each others choice in denomination or style of worship, nor do we point fingers as the missteps of others.

I see a big difference in offering a critical comment on a particular topic and making fun of another.

When Jesus asked: "Who touched Me?" It wasn't to embarrass the woman.

I will be leaving so some time. Back to the hospital. I'm getting my moneies worth out of medicare this year. Nothing life threating just a little peace and quite on Spectrum from me. tom

Tom, we'll miss you, but like you, I have really gotten my monies worth from Medicare. You youngun's keep paying up, you'll appreciate the benefits one day.

Tom,

I really hope this isn't serious. You will be in my prayers. One plus is that you won't have orthodoxymoron to kick around for a while. God bless.

Tom you asked. . .

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/freetagging_nodes/salvation

How about 240 comments on that topic six weeks ago.

Plus a bunch more recently in the Sabbath School section.

If the New Yorker cover flap has shown us anything, it's clear that satire isn't meant for everyone.

God be with thee in the hospital. I'll miss you.

Carroll, I certainly hope you caught this link (I think it was posted here on Spectrum as well as everywhere else in cyberspace):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY4khRpG8O8

Perhaps the sponsor of the new 3ABN programs could be Adventist Trading Cards?

Wouldn't an Adventist Saturday Night Live be fun?

Or an Adventist "News from Lake Woebegone" be fun?

We have so much unexplored terrain for humor and satire. Wouldn't it be refreshing to see us make fun of ourselves? I'll bet we'd catch a lot of viewers with humor that wouldn't watch any other programming.

I can already picture a sketch at an Adventist potluck where haystacks is the featured fare. The saints are lining up after church for "Sabbath dinner." But YIKES! An "outsider" has added an ingredient never before imagined in an Adventist haystack.

How about the Adventist "Bachelor"? The first contestant could be Danny Shelton.

My favorite satirists are Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert on the "Daily Show." There is nothing sacrosanct for them, and they are superior satirists in my book.

Alex

My procedure turned out to be out-patient. I was sent home six hours after. They said there would be little pain. but get me two weeks of pain killer. The fact that I am up answering an entry means sleep excapes me. Alex my adversion to satire and laughter at the experience of others, is I believe it is cruel and unCristian. I took a lot of heat in the army as a Sabbath keeping and non-combantant. It wasn't until after three major battles did I earn the respect of my unit and Captain.

To manufacture situations that mock others is beyond the limits of Christian ethics in my mind. I all willing to engage in debate win or lose--If the debate is on a topic of a critical issue of education, health, politics, or redemption.

I think there is more than enough real examples of overreaching among preachers and TV evangelists to make their position totally untentable. Why create nonsense, which puts the creator in the same bag as the mark.

Here is a must story, since I can't sleep. I was teaching at Marquette University in Milaukee, Wisc. about 80 miles from the state capital of Madison. I frequently had to travel to the capital on either university of children's hospital business. We only had one car, which Betty needed to get the children to and from school so I took the Greyhound Bus.

One afternoon, returning to Milwaukee, I took an right side eisle seat about 2/3 back. A young priest took a eisle seat on the left side about three seats ahead of me. He immediately put his nose right down into his prayer book. Just before, the bus left the bus stop, a tall blonde co-ed climbed on board. She was wearing hot pants, a tank top, and some kind of beach shoes with an ankle braclet. She took a side opposite me on the aisle and streched her long legs fOrward intil the foot and ankle were opposite the young priast. As soon as my eyeballs were correctly aligned. I truned to watch the young Priest. He would take his nose out of his prayer book, gaze at the ankle, quickly look around to see if anyone had noticed. Of course everone on the bus were focused on him but tried to appear disinterested. He would return to his prayer book for a minute or two and then back to the ankle. This when on for about 90 minutes until we arrived in Milwaukee. We all enjoyed the trip. But the Priest obviously was having a very difficult time with his conscience. Maybe when he grew up he could find a sermon in there somewhere-Like David on the roof. Of course everyone on the bus took the position--tahnk God, I am not like that Priest. WE just looked! However, if any of my students had seen that scene that would have drawn me bugeyed the entire way. But I could see the priest and the ankle at the same time and, Of course I was judging the Priest. The ankle needed no critical analysis. Tom

Wow. Not a thought of the persons who are learning about the gospel through 3ABN. Maybe we are not wanted in the pews of Spectrum magazine posters. Please let me know so that I don't bother your pew.

Tom:

I'm glad things turned out ok medically.

Your story leaves me conflicted. You posted a freedom version of the Ten Commandments, but I'm having problems with the final four:

VII. Free From Ruling Passions (love not lust rules)---Problem is...people love to lust...was it a sin to look?

VIII. Free to Share (giving rather than taking)---Problem is...the young lady was giving and not taking...was that wrong?

IX. Free Face the Truth. (The No Spin Zone)---Problem is...would the priest have been less sinful if he had just faced the truth...and stared, without trying(lying) to look pious?

X. Free From Selfishness. (Rejoicing in another's good fortune.)---Problem is...shouldn't the people on the bus have just rejoiced in the priest's good fortune...instead of judging him?

JoAnn,

Vary rarely is the gospel (the life, death and resurrection of Christ) mentioned on 3ABN. There is a lot of talk about rules and sin; which is fine, but it’s not the gospel. I think that's why a lot of Spectrum readers don't like 3ABN, although they don't exactly come out and say it either.

A good contrast would be the program "Ed Young Presents" on TBN. He generally touches on the salvation plan in every sermon.

Oxy

He that looketh on a woman has commited adultary in his heart already.

The woman was inticing not sharing.

See # 1

How do you justify lust and opprounity to lust?

Tom

Seems you enjoy negative thinking and giving the Gospel a Good spin to your advantage. My story was just a little bit of human nature in an closed environment. You built your own castles in the sky. So far you are building on wet sand. so I'd stand way back went you get finished if I were you. Sand is just dead weight. Tom

Orxy friend: your mind is not equiped for these bon mots.

Tom, glad at your age an ankle bracelet still gets you going, or is considered an object of lust. ;-} Give the poor celebate a break would you, he doesn't see stuff like that every day does he?

Regards,

Douglas

My brother-in-law/pastor/friend pointed out to me once that Jesus just advised against looking with lust. He didn't say anything about just looking.

I've been working at the GC this summer, so after seeing Hope Channel (which is 3ABN2 in my opinion) non-stop I thought this was hilarious. Lighten up people!

Alex:

I always enjoy good satire even if there are others in the audience who are humor-challenged. And no one even picked up on the 1-0 vote that set all these programming ideas in motion. Good humor is in the details, I think.

It is interesting that neither of the two Adventist TV networks have much in the way of more "populist" fare. Hmmm...there could be a niche there somewhere. I'll be getting a new prosumer camcorder here in the next few weeks--maybe I need to connect with the folks down the road at the FL Hospital Church and see if we can build a whole series out of the Adventist Trading Cards or Pastor's Wives "pilots". Who knows, maybe it could go viral and Hollywood would come knocking and before you know it a third wave of Adventist media could be born right here in the shadows of Wallyworld.

BTW, I'm enjoying the Bravo channel banner ads at the bottom of your blog. :-)

Thanks Delvin. It's great that Forrest Lake hired you on as full time pastor of technology.

On Satire:

I kid because I love. And glad that you mentioned the deets. I would never want to personally attack someone, but I do think that - like in some families - we give each other a hard time because we care.

I think it is a healthy thing to be able to laugh at yourself, even if (or especially if) the "yourself" is a corporate entity like a church. Adventists are a "peculiar" people in more than one sense of the word and to the outside observer in particular some of the more unusual practices and jargon certainly must seem a bit odd, to say the least. So we might as well admit it and laugh along with the rest.

What I am enjoying these days is how technology is enabling people who otherwise might have practiced their humor in the isolation of a single church or circle of friends can now share that humor across a broader context. No doubt it draws even wider criticism, but I would think this is balanced by a wider acceptance and appreciation as well.

And I'm serious: I think an Adventist serial drama/sitcom would be great fun. Of course only a few would get all the jokes, but imagine the fun of getting a group of friends together and watching an episode on TiVo so you can rewind it and catch all the Adventist insider stuff.

Stan,
Your are incorrect.
JoAnn ;)

Woops, I forgot to explain "incorrect."

I come from the TBN crowd -- and am glad you are heading there. I will gladly take your seat since more gospel in taught in 3ABN than in TBN, in my opinion. But, as I said . . . be my guest -- you may have my seat in the TBN followers pew. I am every grateful to 3ABN as are the many new Adventists who are maybe alarming the Spectrum anti-3ABN gang with our positive thoughts and increasing numbers. Therefore, maybe that is why lots of negative 3ABN chatter is produced to calm the alarm. This is what scared high school teachers did in the staff lounge too, although verbally since we did not want to post our comments. Change comes hard to an old boys club, but change is coming . . . like it or not ;)

I will carve a path in Spectrum so that those of my TBN friends who follow me will not encounter, hopefully, such negative and untrue 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Weimar satire. I do not want that stone around my neck -- path to hell is paved with good intentions. I intend to defend my new Adventist friends among Spectrum negativity -- and are doing it rather than intending to do it. Action is a beautiful thing. I have always admired people of action, so I will be a lady of action. As I said, my seat in the Sunday crowd is empty -- be my guest. Enjoy.

JoAnn

JoAnn,

I don't subscribe to 3ABN, so I can't comment about it specifically. But what Stan seems to be reacting to, is something that has been a running problem within Adventism. Years ago, George Vandemann stated that what he liked about "our Baptist brethren," as he put it, was the joy they had in Jesus. He was implying that this was something in shorter supply within our own ranks. Why? Partly because of the issues that Stan was raising. We have often been so focused on pinpointing end time events and lifestyle distinctives, that the simple good news got lost in the sauce.

I'm not saying that this is what 3ABN does. I don't know. I'm not saying that people can't be blessed by it or by ministries like "Amazing Facts." But in my own encounter with "Amazing Facts" evangelism campaigns, I came away with the same impression as Stan does with 3ABN. I heard lots about the identity of the beast...the third night in a five week series...lots about issues like jewlery, etc., but I can only remember one night in five weeks when the atonement that Christ made for us on Calvary was front and center, and only for a portion of that particular message.

This was almost nine years ago. Maybe things have changed for the better with "Amazing Facts." I know they have in Adventism at large. But if the center of the gospel isn't placed in the center by our media ministries, then it is no wonder that guys like Stan will listen to media preachers that do...even if they do it on Sunday.

Sorry for butting in!

Thanks...

Frank

Wow. Not a thought of the persons who are learning about the gospel through 3ABN. Maybe we are not wanted in the pews of Spectrum magazine posters. Please let me know so that I don't bother your pew.
Posted by: JoAnn Henkel (not verified) | 22 July 2008 at 8:42-
------------------------------------------------------------

I know directly of three people brought to the church by 3ABN.

JoAnn,

Vary rarely is the gospel (the life, death and resurrection of Christ) mentioned on 3ABN. There is a lot of talk about rules and sin; which is fine, but it’s not the gospel. I think that's why a lot of Spectrum readers don't like 3ABN, although they don't exactly come out and say it either.

A good contrast would be the program "Ed Young Presents" on TBN. He generally touches on the salvation plan in every sermon.
Posted by: Stan (not verified) | 23 July 2008 at 4:25
-----------------------------------------------------------

Adventists' "problem" is that they dare to see the gospel in the entire Bible. If man shall live by every word from the mouth of God, then surely Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot be "more important" than Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther and Job.

I’m probably for humor more than the average. I’ve used it a lot to get me through some really tough stuff. But, when humor is at the expense of others I believe we’ve crossed the line. This isn’t the first time that these organizations have been put down on this site. After several “below the belt” punches, it comes across as being more of a sarcastic slam than something truly funny. Some speak of “laughing at ourselves” but I didn’t see any joke in this piece about Spectrum or its contributors. Constructive criticism, I believe, is warranted, but not laughing at the expense of others. There’s enough unnecessary pain in this world as is.

How many Adventists does it take to change a light bulb?

a) To be fair it depends on where you are and whose light should shine.

b)Lots, but at least:

1 White, 1 Black, 1 Asian, 1 Hispanic & 1 Woman after consultation with the Union, the Conference following changes in the church manual at the General Conference the world field willing.

(The proviso being that all members involved be appropriately wed with no history of divorce or homosexuality!)

c) The vote was lost last Tuesday while the 2/3 world were out shopping just before sabbath for their light bulb.

I didn't intend to use "gospel" as a pejorative term; if 3ABN and Amazing Facts prefer to talk about other things that is fine.