Rethinking Revelation Seminars in the Philippines
A ministerial students speaks to an experienced evangelist about ways of presenting Revelation.
La Sierra University professor Kendra Haloviak gave students in her “Seven churches of the Apocalypse” graduate seminar this assignment: Interview a pastor who conducted a non-traditional Revelation seminar in the last three years.
Ministerial student Lambert Trinidad spoke to Guillermo Gucilatar, a pastor, evangelist, and administrator from the Philippines who recently retired in Southern California.
During his career, Pastor Gucilatar served as a district pastor, a church pastor, ministerial secretary, conference evangelist, and Central Luzon Conference president. He was widely known for dynamic preaching and exceptional evangelism.
In the following exchange, Lambert Trinidad and Guillermo Gucilatar discuss methods of presenting the book of Revelation in public seminars, and Gucilatar reflects on how his approach to conducting Revelation seminars changed with time.
Question: From the time you entered the ministry until your retirement, can you give an idea of how many years you have been involved in conducting Revelation seminars?
Answer: I’d say about 25 years. I didn’t start conducting Revelation seminars until after about my first 16 years in the ministry. During the first 16 years, I focused on gospel and doctrinal presentations when I conducted public evangelistic meetings.
Question: What was it like to conduct your first a Revelation Seminar?
Answer: It was great. Just like when I conducted doctrinal meetings, I had a team working with me to bring listeners to our nightly meetings. We had different working committees such as program, sound system, ushering, visitation, refreshment, etc. I took care of the preaching aspect and I did visitations with my team members during the day.
Question: How would you describe your approach or style for conducting a Revelation Seminar?
Answer: Well, you know how we do it in the Philippines. After all the other parts of the program, I’d stand at the pulpit and preach for a good 30 minutes or so and the audience listened. We did that every night for one or two weeks.
I used good illustrations and visual aids. Using the book of Revelation, I preached on different subjects such as the love of God, incarnation, salvation through the Lamb of God, true church, false church, second coming, day of judgment, and many others. I explained the symbols in the book.
I made it clear to the people — especially to our Catholic friends — that the beast in Revelation 13 is the papal system, and if they truly love the Lord, they had to come out of that system and follow God instead. You know that majority of the people from our country are Roman Catholics, so I found it interesting to use the book of Revelation to reach out to them. At the end of the seminar I always did an altar call asking the people to choose between truth and traditions, between God and Satan, and between good and evil. They’ve got to make a decision for Christ if they wanted to be saved.
Question: When I was still in the Philippines, I attended some of your seminars, and I know that the meetings were successful. There were always many baptisms after the meetings. During those Revelation seminars, what do you think made the people – especially non-Adventists – decide to be baptized and join our church?
Answer: I believe they were enlightened. The Holy Spirit convinced and converted them.
Question: Have you thought of the possibility that perhaps they were just afraid of the judgment?
Answer: Oh yeah. Although I believe people should accept the Lord because they love Him, on the other hand I think it’s normal for people to be afraid and realize the consequences if they choose the side of evil. It’s not a good way to bring people to Christ, but it works. In the long run, they grow in their relationship with God anyway.
Question: Have you tried a different or new approach to a Revelation seminar?
Answer: Yes. During the last nine years of my ministry, I tried to change my presentation style, the tone of my voice, and the theme of the message. When I did public meetings, I began preaching the message to my listeners not in a beastly manner, and not trying to scare people. You know what I mean.
I learned to put more emphasis on God’s grace and forgiveness. I put more emphasis on the Lamb rather than the Beast. I put more emphasis on the sacrifice and the love of the Lamb and the victory we have won through him rather than the cruelty of the Beast and the terrible end he and his worshipers would meet. I focused more on the rewards for the saints rather than the punishment for the sinners.
Question: How was that different from your previous style or approach?
Answer: I found out that more non-Adventist people were coming to the meetings and Catholics were not as skeptical, prejudiced, and negative. People were not tense. People were happier. I learned also that as I gave more emphasis on the Lamb and his love, the listeners themselves considered the other side of the story. They themselves compared the Lamb and the Beast and all of the consequences of the decisions they’d make whether they chose the Lamb or the Beast.
Question: That is really interesting. I understand that the changes of your approach to a Revelation seminar are basically more on the tone and the theme of your preaching. What about a different format of Revelation seminar? Have you attempted a different approach other than preaching in front of a large audience?
Answer: I did a lot of small group meetings where those who attended had the opportunity to share their take on and understanding of the book of Revelation. There was open discussion and dialogue. In fact I did a lot of that when I was still a pastor at Adventist University of the Philippines where there were a lot of International students coming from different backgrounds and cultures.
Question: How was it? What did you learn from the experience?
Answer: It was a lot different compared to the format where I stood at the pulpit and preached or gave lectures while the people listened.
I must admit I was more comfortable with the preaching format. Not that I didn’t want the small group format. The small group or open dialogue or discussion format gave me new perspectives, though.
I found out that different people relate to the book of Revelation differently based on their personal experiences and circumstances. It’s interesting how people see and interpret some parts of the book of Revelation in light of their own struggles in life. I think it was good to hear from other people rather than me always talking. It felt good to journey with them. I learned a lot of things from them. I became more sympathetic and compassionate with people. With the small group format, I found out that there’s a whole lot more meaning and spiritual implications we can discover from the book of Revelation. It’s a very rich book, very spiritual, and very Christ-centered.
Question: Can you give an example of new meanings or spiritual implications you’re talking about?
Answer: For example, the persecution of Christians. We may not be aware, or we may be aware that we Christians sometimes become the persecutors of other people. We may be the ones giving other people a hard time or we torment them, so to speak, one way or another.
During the first century, Christians were viewed by Pagans, Romans, and the Jewish people as crazy or foolish group or sort of “the others” within society. Don’t we Seventh-day Adventist Christians sometimes consciously or unconsciously view non-believers as foolish and sort of “the others” although we may not always verbalize it?
We sometimes make a biased identification of people. We think that we, Adventists, are better than others. We think that we have the light and others don’t, so are the chosen ones to bring the light to them. By thinking and believing so, we miss the opportunity of learning from them and getting light from them as well.
Another thing is the beast in Revelation 13. We [say] that it’s the Papal System—Roman Catholicism. Then we try to reach out to Catholics, but the way we present the message is sometimes beastly in manner – we try to scare them and we point out to them that they are wrong and we [try to] prove very strongly that we are right.
It’s funny because that’s the way I used to do it during my early years in the ministry. In most cases we are successful in proving that they got it wrong and that we got it right. We win the arguments but we lose the people and we fail to bring them to the Lamb.
Question: That is powerful and very well said. I think we should come to people with a message of love, grace, and compassion instead, and present to them in a loving manner the heart of Revelation – none other than Jesus, the Lamb of God.
Answer: Exactly!
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Comments
Revelation Seminars in Georgia are horror side shows with no redeeming qualities.
They are ego-centric fear mongering set pieces with an unrelenting pressure-point via power point with a contemporary Jonathan Edwards twist. (On his worst day) No one should enter the pulpit to “evangelize” from the Book of Revelation until they have read and reread John R. W. Stott’s commentary: Letters to the Seven Churches.
Salvation Unlimited by Edward Heppenstall should be the primer of the Evangelist.
Revelation was written to the churched not the unchurched. One must be firmly grounded in Paul before venturing into Revelation. Paul grabs the heart and John, the Revelator, provides the back bone! His message is simple—stay the course! stay the course—don’t let the noise and discord of beasts, or even the fear of death turn you from your assurance in Christ Jesus.
Revelation Seminars “saves” the one and loses the 99!
Tom
I fully support Pastor Gucilatar's approach. I am currently doing something similar with a small group at my church in Cardiff, Wales. (I'm the pastor). I am seeing the same results. We are studying the book of Revelation in the way you've described it.
Half of those attending are non-members and young. One, a 28 year old engineer, has no church or Christian back ground whatsoever, yet he is one of the most interested. Another, a young single mother with two small boys, was born a Muslim and only recently became a Christian. She has been attending our church for most of this past year. Another, a university law student, walked into church a few months ago because he became convinced while studying the Bible on his own that Saturday is the Biblical Sabbath.
I could say more but it would only repeat what you've given us above. Thank you for affirming the soundness of Christ's own methods for teaching his Word.
I'll link your post in my blog. It deserves some serious attention.
My own experience with a non-traditional approach to Bible teaching or Revelation Seminar with even just one Adventist in the audience - who already knew all the answers - had been a disaster.
The only authentic, non-traditional, gospel-centered (and I believe, successful) Revelation Seminar I've witnessed so far with an Adventist audience was by Howard Flynn of the Southern California Conference. He may choose to vary his approach, however, if he hasn't already done this with another group composed mostly of non-church attenders. Flynn is one non-traditional pastor-evangelist I highly recommend not only to be interviewed, but for young ministers-in-training (especially Filipinos) to be mentored by him.
i find Dr. Jon Paulien's Revelation Seminar approach more post-modern friendly.
Revelation is the last book in the Bible, Why would anyone-start there and remain there fo three weeks--the only reason is to proselytize not evangelize.
Why not start with the jailer and Paul and Silas. Believe the the Lord Jesus Christ! Then unravel the Christ event in its full glory. Of course, That is what Graham Maxwell does--but, of course, he is a pan-Gnostic with spiritualistic tendencies so Shubee keeps telling us.
One leaves a Maxwell Bible study without any fear of dying but with a great hope to serve a risen Savior.
One leaves a Revelation seminar hoping to die before the "Time of Trouble1" Blessed Assurance eh?
The Post Master of Evans, Ga, a life long Methodist, became a Seventh-day Adventist because my wife and the wives of other
SDA faculty at the Medical College of Georgia stopped in to pick up their mail. The mail included Southern Tidings, the Review, Life and Health, Liberty, Ministry. He was so impressed with the friendly happy greetings that he became to wonder if those magazines helped make them that kind and generous, and happy. He read the mag. before putting them in their mail box. Then a flyer came announcing a series.
He asked one of the wives, if he and his wife could go with them. He passed away, in the Lord, She is still a greeter at the door each Sabbath, a great big smile for everyone.
I have given hundreds if not thousands of Bible Studies without once mentioning the Mark of the Beast. Many in those classes were senior citzens no longer with us. Each passed to their rest in confidence. A number of the younger ones are now teaching Sunday School or Sabbath School Classes of their own.
Revelation is for the mature in the faith, not the neophyte.
In the Beginning God--In the End-God. He can be found and understood best in the Gospels and Epistles.
Once you get there then try Dan 2. Please note the story ends with a rock cut out without hands that crushes the entire scheme of man's devising and fill the whole earth. The story doesn't end with feet of iron mixed with clay!
Even So come Lord Jesus. Tom
Is Jon Paulien's Revelation Seminar an outreach evangelism to non-church people?
@Tom "Revelation is the last book in the Bible, Why would anyone-start there and remain there fo three weeks--the only reason is to proselytize not evangelize."
It is a great place to start because it is full of the Gospel, the testimony of Jesus, inspired by God to meet the needs of his church as it faces a horrific world, and because it promises a blessing to those who accept it's promises and obey it's commands. Nothing is more relevant than a message of comfort and assurance for those living in the final few moments before Christ returns.
With respect Tom, I think your statement says more about your misunderstanding of the book than how others should read it.
Jan McKenzie
Have you ever attended a Revelation Seminar in Georgia?
If you have, please point out One instance of the Gospel being mentioned, shown on a power point slide, or included in any flyer, handout, or supplied note.
Yes the book is full of the Gospel. As one scholar put it:
The Old Testament tells: "He is Expected" The Gospels Tells Us He Came, Lived, and Died." The Epistles Tells us He Lives and Why" and the Book of Revelation Tells us He reigns!"
Question: If John saw an angel filling in the midst of heaven having the Everlasting Gospel: When was such an Angel sent forth?
What did the Gospel Message Demand? Was it not to make a judgment as to whether the Finished work of Jesus Christ was necessary and sufficient for each person's redemption? The Gospel brings the need to decide for the good or evil side!"
If the First angel was true: Then the false angel Satan was finished!!!! Babylon had fallen. Recall if you will, that Satan offered Jesus Satan's entire kingdom if Jesus would but bow before Satan. Now Christ became the second Adam, the Kingdom belonged once again to the Lord. Satan's rule Bayblon has fallen at the Cross!
The Third Angel warns anyone who gives support to the devil in either intellectually or in physical labor or the cash received from intellectual or physical labor will be listed or labeled as of the devil. (Marked if you please! as the devil's handmaiden)
Please tell, how many Revelation Seminars have you heard that told that Gospel story?
The Sunday Law, The Sunday Law, The Sunday law, as if time was more important than the Creator of time.
There is more in the Book of Revelation that either you or I will ever understand. But I can assure you that if any evangelist coming to Georgia with a full press Revelation Seminar hasn't got one oz. of gospel with him. If he/she has it has never come out in public.
There is plenty I don't know about the book of Revelation, Most of that emptiness is due to those who come and try to explain it without even a foggy notion of what it is about.
Finally, when did you hear any comfort and assurance in a Revelation Seminar? A little Gloat, maybe a little glee as knowing those who don't keep the Sabbath with burn someday--so whose laughing now?
Please go back and read J. Edwards infamous sermon: "Man in the Hands of an Angry God" and then compare it with the
theme of a Revelation Seminar in Georgia. If you truly have grasped the Gospel in the book of Revelation and spend three weeks in a Georgia Revelation Seminar, you will go away weeping britter tears.
Jan, you can dispense with your respect--you haven't the first notion of what it means. It is just a civil way of gloating isn't it? Tom
Tom
Since my experience studying Daniel and Revelation in this country has so far been with other Christians (Presbyterians in particular), I have chosen not to lead the group, kept quiet most of the time and listened attentively to what others said. I call this approach non-traditional.
It's a relevant question Tom posed: Why start with Revelation for non-church people? I don't know if I would like to begin with Revelation or Daniel. Like I said, my previous experience, especially with at least one other SDA or ex-SDA in attendance, was an unqualified disaster.
Tom,
Your experience in Georgia with Rev. Seminars is very similar to what I've encountered in New York. I've witnessed the beast being identified on the third night of a series (needless to say that a good portion of the audience disappeared after that); I've seen involved presentations of sanctuary hardware and prophetic dating, but often very little of the simple gospel message.
I'm not saying that it can't be done...I think people like Dwight Nelson and Shawn Boonstra really do focus on Christ in their presentations. But it would be nice for us to present the gospel from something like John's gospel...
"This has been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that by believing, you may have life in his name."
In an increasingly post-modern culture, where many don't know the apostles from the epistles, I think we need to make Christian disciples first, before the distinctives of Adventism even enter the picture.
Thanks...
Frank
Thank You Frank.
You certainly grasped my point. My point is why do it the hard way? Why not do it the way Jesus did it and John and Paul explained it?
It seems to this observer at least, there is s sense of defensiveness mixed with a lot of triumphalism in the typical Revelation Seminar.
There are those who have to go home to change underwear, There are those who have to go home to upchuck, and there are those who go home and just shake their heads, and a very few who say, I must hear more! The church just counts the ones who return for more beatings. Tom
P.S. Meeting the evangelists, one finds a very nice persom, trying their best, with very little substance. Cut out the book of Daniel and Revelation and they would be lost in Scripture. Take away their remote control and they would be speachless. Tom
No having attended one of the SDA seminars in many years, it sounds as though there has nothing changed or done differently since the 1930's! Then, such meetings only attracted other Bible believing Christians, largely Protestants.
The anti-Catholicism still rules in Adventist preaching it seems. And there are still masochists, evidently.
One has to have lived in the South for 42 years to understand
the damage to Christianity, ant-Catholcism is doing.
The percentage of scoundrels in each denomination is about the same and the degree of decadence the same, and the egotism the same. There is no room for triumphalism anywhere.
To pray for forgiven and wisdom is the only hope. Tom
"...it sounds as though there has nothing changed or done differently since the 1930's! Then, such meetings only attracted other Bible believing Christians, largely Protestants."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, Elaine. That's the impression I get too. Such meetings seem to still be aimed at Bible believing Protestants, or at least at those who seem to have a familiarity with the Bible. This seems increasingly out of place in the culture we are living in today...in North America at least.
And from statistical studies, Revelation Seminars seem to be attractive to only a small percentage of the population...from what I remember, about 4% who have an interest in studying Bible prophecy. Out of that small percentage, only another smaller percentge said that they would have the time to devote to a 3-5week series 5 nights per week...mostly those who were unemployed for various reasons, or those who are retired. IOW...people who have more time on their hands. clearly, the efficiency of such methods needs to be rethought.
And from my own experience, I've always noticed that the people most often attracted and enamoured with such, are those who love to delve into conspiracy theories and all kinds of off center speculations about world events, governmental machinations, etc. Very often, strange characters.
Thanks...
Frank
And then we wonder why Adventists seem to be so easily captivated by all sorts of conspiracy theories! It's in the mother's milk of Adventism: The Catholics are out to get us!
This might have worked fairly well 60-70 years ago in the Deep South, almost 100% Protestant. Today, it is a turn-off for even most Protestants. The world has changed, but Adventism is still the same: anti-all other religions, theirs is the only true and remnant church!
Tom, I did mean what I said about addressing you with respect. Your anger and rashness toward me are not justified. You are very free with you opinions, yet you are offended because I suggest you have misunderstood something? In fact you clearly have. I said nothing in defense of misguided presentations of Revelation Seminars. Please read more carefully before you comment.
I was taking issue with your particular statement regarding the book of Revelation being an inappropriate place to start begin study with someone. I would also take issue with your confessed practice of having "given hundreds if not thousands of Bible Studies without once mentioning the Mark of the Beast." If that is truly the case, then you have failed in teaching a balanced view of last day events, for it is impossible to do what you claim without distorting Revelation 14's historical or theological context or introducing basic Adventist belief's on the 3rd angels message.
I have no doubt this will only anger you more, but perhaps that is something you need to face if you are going to be so rash in a public form.
At the moment, being the holiday, I won't be returning to Spectrum for a few days to respond. Apologies.
Jan
please look up the word transference. You give me a poke in the ribs and call my response angry and rashness. Your response only indicates Toche' I got you where your were vulnerable.
The Apostle John, in His Gospel, started with "For God So Loved The World, that He Gave" My view is let us tell our neighbor and friends who it is that watches over us, not who is hiding under the bed.
I ain't angery at anyone. You, got hurt, you hit back, and then send Apologies--You manufacture anger in someone else to hid your hurt ego and gloss it over with superfical cunning. If you really wanted to apologize You could have just written--sorry Tom
P.S. I refer you to other entries on this web site to get my take on the 3 Angels Messages. It is quite clear that the SDA church and apparently you have no idea of its meaning or dimensions.
It is only because I have heard it wrong for over 80 years that I have some inkling about its true significance. Certainly, the SDA Church has less hold on it than it does on Dan. 8:14.
Please for your sake, not mine, read John R. W. Stotts' commentary on the Seven Churches of Revelation. It will take the patronizing ego out of your soul. Have a Merry Chrismas by giving a little space to a brother. Tom
Elaine and Frank,
It seems that the SDA church has been competing with the Dispensationalists and the Dispensationalists have won the numbers game at least across Dixie.
That is why, I keep up the drum beat--if you want to preach the Gospel, then preach the Gospel. Mankind is already frightened enough.
The Gospel is in the first and second angel of Revelation and yet we hammer the third angel in a most vulgar and triumphalistic manner.
The Gospel isn't old stuff! it is fresh every morning. Tom
Just curious, if there's a way to get in touch with Lambert, if the Revelation Seminar he had attended in the Philippines was just another label for traditional evangelistic meetings with some references to Revelation instead of a seminar on Revelation. Has anyone-- Filipino evangelist or lay preacher - really conducted an authentic Revelation Seminar, especially one that resulted in baptisms of non-Adventists who were also mostly Roman Catholics?
From my experience in Sydney, prophecy seminars were initially interesting and intellectually stimulating, and I was quite excited about what I learned during the first prophecy seminar series, but that was all. With time passing by, I just lost my interest in prophecy seminars. Why? Because I already knew the things they were going to say. I mean, if I had already known the answer, then why still be there? And what really annoyed me was, they keep calling prophecy seminars evangelistic campaigns! This is ridiculous. Whenever they mention the phrase "evangelistic campaigns", they mostly mean prophecy seminars, would only briefly refer to the 4 gospels, Pauline epistles, Psalms which present to us a personal and faithful God, etc. As if, for these preachers, the only 2 books they need are Daniel and Revelations. Why don't we then make an Adventist version of the Bible consisting of Daniel and Revelations only?
We've done letterboxings across a few suburbs, and in the end, almost all of those who turned up were Adventists, only maybe no more than 4 non Adventists turned up, and it'd be a good thing for only 2 of them to remain till the finale.
So it became a revision program for Adventists to review what we have learnt before.
Then when I raised this problem, sometimes I just got such answer "but we are Adventists, and this is our unique message to share", sounds like, the non-Adventists can take care of the simple gospel, and we do the advanced course.
The whole tradition of being prophecy and doctrine centred derives from the Uriah Smith era. He wrote a book laying down the topics we are all familiar with at prophecy seminars, but what he was doing back then was to prove the Adventist theology to a mainly Protestant America. And we cannot do the same thing and expect the same level of response today. The average Joe doesn't even know what we are talking about. The global demographics is different today, and I am not shamed to call myself a post-modern Christian. Because this means, I think for myself, and I do not simply make conclusions based on assumptions.
You want to know what a real evangelistic campaign that focuses on God's character is like? Check out Ty Gibson's series, particularly "See with New Eyes". He made a wonderful series of presentations in Florida in 2005 about how to reach a post-modern society, and they can be found here. http://www.altamonteadventist.org/html/archived_sermons.htm
I greatly admire thinkers like Ty within the church.
Another great example is Herb Montgomery's "Extravagant Love" series, he did not preach on prophecies until presentation 7 in his 17 part series. The first 6 presentations are dedicated to the essential gospel.
Generally, I dare to say, Ty's and Herb's audience will not act out their self preservation and join the church because of all the fear mongering, they will join the church because they have first decided to give their lives to Jesus, whom they know loves them so much on a personal level.
In October 2008 I received an invitation to facilitate a series of prayer meetings studying the Book of Revelation,for the Baptist congregation in the town next to mine. I did so based on the work of Des Ford, Jon Paulien and Ranko Stefanovic. I am a 'bear with a very small brain," and not very learned in the deep things of Theology, but I want to record that it was one of the most exilerating experiences of my almost forty years in the Adventist ministry. I did not need to be defensive or apologetic about anything and it was sheer joy to be able to ask a Baptist church to come join with us in proclaiming the three angel's messages the heart of which is the Gospel and an illustration of which is the seventh-day sabbath. One kind Baptist said to me, "I will need to change my opinion about Seventh-day Adventists now."
Christ is indeed what the Book of Revelation is all about.
To late to be heard? Compared to some comments which mention time 1930's and 80 years etc. at 50 something I'm still starting out. But I feel the need to say something. As a pastor for nearly 25 years we, various congregations south and west and my self, have tried many different ways of reaching our communities for Christ. Following the idea of reaching the people where they had acknowledged needs and desiring there best, we've had active community services, health programs of various types, voting stations, red cross blood draw site, food programs, cooking schools, 12 step program sites etc... When we've tried presenting the community with the hope we have in Christ we've discovered that personal presentation one on one has some positive response, BUT when we start out with a program (seminar or or series) about Jesus our Hope or other explicite Christ centered presentation no one other than church members come. When we do seminars (the teaching/class type) or series (preaching formats) on Revelation, Daniel or Prophecy then non-christian, searchers, and practicing and non-practicing Christians do come. Where do we start loosing those who are not presently part of our fellowship? When we start presenting Christ as the center of our hope, the Lamb of Revelation, the deliverer, the Saviour, the Son of God, the reason for our being. Blame folks like me if you will, but many of us are trying every way we can to be led by and used by the Holy Spirit to present Jesus as our only hope in this mess we're all in. Well...there's a lot more I could or maybe should say... but gotta go. Love, Brother Michael
Brother Michael
Remember Jesus healed ten lepers and only one returned to thank Him. Even He observed: "Were there not ten cleansed?"
Presently Christ as the center of our hope--still is the best.
I taught at SS Class twenty years ago. A member of the class moved away. His son, age 23 died. I wrote a note of condolances. I got a reply. "Tom, you put me on the right path years ago and I'm still on it. Thank you." My theme was: "My Hope is built on Nothing Less than Jesus' Blood and Righteousness." Yes there is a Balm in Gilead. Tom
I believe something Frank wrote above bears repeating:
"In an increasingly post-modern culture, where many don't know the apostles from the epistles, I think we need to make Christian disciples first, before the distinctives of Adventism even enter the picture."
Our church has been doing these seminar/evangelistic meetings long enough to realize that neither attendance of, nor baptisms from, the meetings is necessarily a good indicator of what has happened at the heart level. Look at the statistics showing how many are still attending church 5 years later. Something needs to be changed!
@ Joselito Coo.
yes. i find Dr. Jon Paulien's approach to Revelation very friendly to non-church people. i find his approach not arrogant as well.
Charles,
I was told that Jon Paulien fieldtested his Revelation Seminar in Australia in cooperation with the ministerial dept. I'm interested to learn of the reaction from there, especially from pastors/laypeople in the field who have adopted Paulien's approach as a result. Have you?
yes, when jon presented his Revelation Seminar approach to the pastors here in BC Conference, he mentioned it is field-tested in Australia.
i haven't received any feedback from anyone there - however i received excellent feedback from people that attended jon's revelation seminars in singapore and thailand.
his revelation seminar is made available in powerpoint format (and transcripts) through dr. bachiocchi's website/company. that's the one that i have.
however, from what i heard being mentioned is that the one being field-tested in australia, is a joint effort with graeme bradford and some editing help by ed dickerson.
i tried calling around when that series will be available to us - hoping it would be available this year since the NAD expects us pastors to have like 2 seminars this year. you know, a better option than what we presently have.
Iam so pleased with your inspiring Web,As i have said, i need more materials to use in teaching.My work is to hold seminars in teaching the Bible truth and more so the Bible Sabbath.Many have joined in my scheduled seminars.Am a Seventh day beliver.
Please i look to hear from yoiu that i can be able to share more!LOOKING TO WORK WITH YOU.
Steve.
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