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When Women Break the Bread of Life
I recently attended a funeral for a long time parishioner at our church. The Pastor had chosen as his text for the homily 1 Corinthians 15:22, “For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.” A good choice, I thought, for giving hope during a time of grief.
He sought to illustrate his message by taking the mourners back to the first Adam who became a living soul by the activity of God. He beautifully told the story of how our Great God formed Adam from the dust of the earth with his own hands. This Great God, he said, then picked up Adam and held him as he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
I waited for him to continue.
It was a woman who lay in the casket. It was her daughters who sat in the pews grieving. Surely, I thought, he will now explain how this Great God then formed a woman with the same loving care - how God held Eve in his arms and breathed into her nostrils his life-giving breath - how one day he will call our dear sister forth from her sleep and she will again become a living soul.
He continued by assuring those present that just as God gave breath and life to Adam, he will one day call all men who sleep in the dust of the ground forth to live with him forever.
And there his message ended.
A few weeks later I was sitting in a class focused on the development of a strong spiritual life. (I shan’t use the forbidden word.) The speaker’s key text was Mark 3:14. “And he appointed twelve, whom he also named apostles, to be with him and to be sent out to proclaim the message.” I was using my RSV that morning and immediately noticed the words, “whom he also named apostles” was not in my Bible. A footnote did indicate that these words were in other “ancient authorities.”
As the version the speaker chose to use included these words, he spent the next few minutes pointing out that the apostles were the 12 men whom Jesus had chosen to follow him and to sit at his feet. His focal point was that it was necessary for these men “to be with him” in order for them to grow spiritually. If they were to share his message with others, these men had to spend intimate time in his presence. This, he said, was the key to a successful spiritual life.
While I greatly appreciated the speaker’s drawing my attention to the words “to be with him,” and his stress that spending time in Jesus’ presence was a key element in developing a rich spiritual life, I couldn’t but help think that if it were a woman teaching the lesson, she would have presented it differently. A woman would probably have paired the passage in Mark 3 with the passage in Luke 8 that deals with the same occasion. In Luke the record reads, “and the 12 were with him and also some women…” A woman’s presentation would have included acknowledgment that there were both men and women who followed Jesus, who listened to his teaching and who spent quality time in close, intimate fellowship with him.
Am I being picky or contentious? Perhaps. Haven’t we for generations been acculturated and trained to mentally translate the word “man” as meaning both men and women. The question is: should we always have to?
It can, of course, be argued that in English the word “man” really means both men and women. Take, for example, the Declaration of Independence. Doesn’t the statement, “All men are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights,” apply to women as well? (1)
The interesting thing about the English language is that it is always evolving; words are continually changing meaning. Following WWII when the world community was drafting a document on human rights, the committee recognized the inherent dignity and the equal and inalienable rights of man, but chose to used the phrase “all members of the human family” rather than men. Article one of the Declaration of Human Rights clearly states “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.”
All human beings - especially those who set in church pews from week to week - need to be reminded
that while in Scripture, God may be referred to by use of the male pronoun “he”, God is Spirit. God is neither male nor female. Women, as well as men, were created in his image.
I had to LOL when I first read the following quote by James White:
“We object to that narrow-souled theology which will not allow the old ladies to have dreams because the prophecy says, “your old men shall dream dreams;” and that will not allow young women to have visions because the prophecy says “your young men shall see vision.” These stingy critics seem to forget that “man and “men” in the Scriptures, generally mean both men and women. The Book says that it is “appointed unto men once to die.” Don’t women die?” (2)
Today’s newer versions of the Old Testament Scriptures translate the Hebrew word “a’dam” as human being or human kind. Genesis 1:27 now more correctly reads “God created humanity (or humankind) in his image.” The word “a’dam” in the familiar passage in Micah 6:8 reads “He has shown you, O Mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require of you.”
In today’s newer translations we read Jesus words as saying, ”I am the way and the truth and the life: noone comes to the Father but by me” and “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends” without having to do the mental gymnastics of switching the word man in our minds to mean both men and women. In the newer versions the word, “anthropos” – which in Greek is inclusive of both men and women – is now being correctly translated as “a human being” or “a person” though out the New Testament.
For generations men and women have heard the unintentional subliminal message of male predominance whenever reading Scripture. The stories, the prophecies, the messages are all couched in the realm of masculine terminology. To be consistently exposed to a vocabulary of male predominance colors one’s world view and one’s outlook. This predisposition to see the world through the lens of men’s experience is then past on from generation to generation in the language. I believe much of the resistance to the full inclusion of women in the life of the church can be traced to the unintentional and unrecognized bias of the language, biblical illustrations and use of words.
I am not suggesting that it takes a woman to correctly break the bread of life. Men who speak publically can be trained to be inclusive in their speech. They can be sensitive to the nuances of gender. They can choose their key texts carefully from newer translations. They can follow Jesus’ led by using practical examples drawn from the lives of both men and women. What I am suggesting is that it is morally and spiritually vital that both women and men hear the Word of God speaking to them personally and individually, not to just the male sex.
1) I do recognize that some would say that landed white men were a little more equal than women and those of color when this document was ratified!
2) White, James. Spiritual Gifts, volumes three and four. Review and Herald Publishing Association. A Facsimile Reproduction, 1945. Page 24
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Keep up the great work Donna, Maybe one day we guys will get the message. God created people. People sinned. Jesus saves. People are changed by allowing God's mind to be in them. God Bless!
Excellent Donna! Thank you for bringing to light, and keeping the light on, this very important issue.
In this day and age, there are still so many girls and women who do not realize they are being "kept in their place". And sadly, many men do not realize they are doing it without even knowing it. This is the mindset that is still taught in our schools, tolerated in workplaces, and promoted in society; yes, it is, still to this day. It is only by exposing this truth that change can take place.
Thank you for your insights, sharing your point of view, and planting seeds. It is now up to us, the next generation, so sow them. You are in inspiration!
God asks us to address Him as Father. He wants us too see Him in a fatherly light. Likewise, He instituted the man to be head of the household. This is not sexism or discrimination; it is the role given to men - leadership.
Pagophilus,
God is both male and female and it is good to view God as both father and mother.
It was a cultural convention that men were head of households in biblical times.
It is inherently sexist and discriminatory that some insist that only men can be leaders.
Kim
Sometimes men are incompetent leaders and women need to take over:
"It is not always men who are best adapted to the successful management of a church. If faithful women have more deep piety and true devotion than men, they could indeed by their prayers and their labors do more than men who are unconsecrated in heart and in life." [Letter 33, 1879, p. 2]
tg
Excellent article, Donna. It is neither picky nor contentious. Jesus was God in flesh, and he was very clear in his inclusion of women. Those who prefer to continue in a male-dominated religion choose to ignore the fact that we, as people - men AND women - are made in God's image. The fullness of God's creation cannot be captured in a singular gender.
"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and they shall become one flesh." -Gen 2:24.
"So then they are, no longer two, but, one flesh. So, what God has joined together let no one put asunder." -Matt 19:6.
This is God's teaching: it takes a family to make a person. In worldly affairs the groom get's the nod, protecting the wife from the hardness of the world; in social affairs the wife is present, protecting the husband from the jabbering of the community.
Traditionally, as seen in most indigenous cultures, unless one is married with children, one has no standing in the community. Certainly singles(children?) had essential, yet peripheral roles - nurses, artists, prostitutes, sages, etc. - but their vote did not count: they had no land, no critical bond for maintenance of the community. This mind-set was also evident at the framing of the US Constitution: voting was limited to land-holders.
"In the Lord the woman is not independent of the man, nor is the man independent of the woman: as woman is made from man, man is born of woman. And all is made by God." -1Cor 11:11-12.
I believe this is the great celibacy advocate saying: 'The woman makes the man.'
"Train up a child in the way he to go: then he will not depart from it when he is old." -Prov 22:6
Somehow, in the past quarter millennia, in our general culture has evolved the individual to become the crown of creation. It seems parents have quit their responsibility of training, relegating the instruction of their children to others who are no more concerned with the welfare of the student than the state, which ultimate concern is maintaining the status quo from which it derives its power.
Yet the language and the primary gender roles come from a much deeper tradition that cannot be overcome by fiat or desire. In divorcing your child's mother, you no longer stand worthy of your inheritance, your offspring become illegitimate, rebellion is exulted, and the woman is denigrated.
Thank-you, Donna, for this eye-opening blog.
kenn
-kenn
fromchaos thru ChristTJG - true. But we're talking exception vs rule. The exception doesn't do away with the rule.
It won't work, Donna, no matter how much you may try to change the order of human beings as has been ordained by Scripture. Man's attempt to confuse and obfuscate the Divine plan for men and women will never be successful as a reflection of His (yes, His) will. There may be moments when man's determination to frustrate His order may seem successful but in the end His will is determinative.
Isn't it interesting how C.Raymond Holmes, an eminent SDA scholar wrote in his book the Tip of an Iceberg that the feminists are trying to steal our language? Admittedly in some cases they have but it has merely created confusion.
I would amend Pago's statement by saying headship in the home and spiritual headship in the church is God's plan for the father. In some states now it is legal, but contrary to the Word, for poor little kids to have two mothers or two fathers. Down the slippery slope our country has gone and it has not been good for the family unit.
MARANATHA!
This mentions nothing of ordination and yes women have functions that God has given to them exclusively as well. Most everything that men are able to do, women can do many things better but we must follow God's order where He specifies gender as has always been the case for different functions in the church.
This battle will continue as has Satan's for a function that God never endowed him with and even though the church will vote it down in 2015, some will continue the rebellion against the GC as is already the case.
The Bible states that we must keep the 7th day Sabbath holy and the fallen churches have used the historical-critical method to interpret saying the day does not matter. Does God really mean what He says through the prophets or are they now of private interpretation as many on this website suggest by their remarks.
Hopefully these words will reach the eyes of one who is truly seeking God's will which is to obey all things that God has said in His Word.
Enjoy the Sabbath!
While I agree with the thrust of this column, I think it would be fairer to say that both male and female public speakers can be trained to be inclusive in their speech. Many (if not most) woman are not politically correct when it comes to gender inclusive language. It goes both ways.
BigKev
BTW, It was Luke (a man) who recorded the fact that there were also women with Jesus on that occasion.
BigKev
This is for TJG and everyone else who misquotes sister White or who like to think their opinions are above the word of God as written and think they need to interpret for us on how they think it should read. IT IS WRITTEN is to decide all controversies.
How can the Lord bless those who manifest a spirit of "I don't care," a spirit which leads them to walk contrary to the light which the Lord has given them? But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible.
When you make the Bible your food, your meat, and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that." Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands.--Manuscript 43, 1901.
Kim, God is neither male nor female.
Some commenters want to ignore our history--
1895, July 9: Ellen White calls for women’s ordination service.
In a Review and Herald article she says some women should be set apart for service in the church by "prayer and laying on of hands."
(please note that the word "some" applies also to men being ordained. hopeful)
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/wo/appendix5.htm
____________________________________________________
"be reverent in behavior, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good" titus 2:3
Fr. Jim,
God did say "let us make man in our own image" which to me indicates that God is both male and female. Traditional Jewish thought/teaching holds hat God has both male and female characteristics/traits hence "man in our image".
Kim
Donna
You are too kind, forgiving men where they have trespassed. You correctly state that women are discriminated against because of the "unintentional and unrecognized bias of the language". In English, gendered endings no longer exist, but they persist in the Romance languages and in many more they are complicated by cases and number. Greek and Hebrew are not divinely-ordained exceptions, and they do not agree on this matter at all. Some languages have none, some two, some add a neutral one. In many idioms, gendered language is controlled by metaphors. Around the world, each language group exhibits its own way of assigning or ignoring gender relations through language.
The question for those who believe male dominance is somehow legitimized by explicit genderizing is, Whose language? Language did not just appear. It has a history, and that history is its dominant usage, occasionally enforced by literary standards and by acts of power. It is a human product.
In essence, no argument about the sex of the Deity or of male dominance or the rightness of female-suppression can be made on the basis of gendered language, even biblical language. It is up to the users of the language, and the efforts of translators and publishers, to make their preferences clear to readers. In my view, the only unassailable position is that divinity is ungendered (or transcendant, but not "both") , and that religious language should be as inclusive as possible.
Graeme
Fr. Jim: "Kim, God is neither male nor female"
Wow... For once, I agree with Fr. Jim!!! I hope it is not the end of the world...
@Kim:
You should try not to take your wishes for reality. When Jesus taught His disciples, it was He who said, "Our Father who is in Heaven". Jesus was not macho or against women or whatever but He showed us that God has to be viewed as a man and Paul speaking of elders indicating that they have to be men having authority over their own family.
Like it or not, God set an order and this is for a good reason. You should try to find out why (hint: this is not because men are better than women, or smarter, or holier).
@hopeful:
Can you provide the whole text? I think that you are taking a sentence out of context.
Anon7,
I linked to my source so you can study it for yourself. Here it is again--
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/wo/appendix5.htm
And here's a related fact:
1950, May 3: General Conference Officers discuss ordination.
"A. V. Olson explained. . . A statement from the pen of Sister White, as found in the Review and Herald of July 9, 1895, has been understood by some to provide for the ordination of certain sisters in church service. After some discussion, it was
"Agreed, To recommend to the General Conference Committee following the session that a small committee be appointed to study and report on this question."—
____________________________________________________
"be reverent in behavior, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good" titus 2:3
God has spoken as if female on a few occasions: Matt 23:37... Jerusalem, how often have I longed to gather you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing....etc.
it seems the author is being a bit picky, as the language flows better when a single pronoun is used. It is called convention, and it is not the idea of suppression, but ease of use.
Adam was told to leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. A radical view at the time, as the woman was always the one to leave her family, see Isaac and Jacob, etc. So this was quite contrary to culture.
And really, neither side has a corner on the theology. It can go both ways.
Anonymous7,
You do tend to be sarcastic in your comments however I assure you that I do NOT mix fact and fiction up much :)
I think that I have enough knowledge and experience to know that the "order" that you refer to is your own interpretations not coming out of the mouth of God.
Kim
Donna, I was one of those who learned very early to translate "man" and "men" as really meaning "humans." But it was not until I realized what a human invention language is, and began to use "woman" and "women" and "she" and "her" when reading Bible passages that seem to speak to men, that I first felt a personal relationship with God.
Is God male or female? God has used both male and female images in describing Him/Herself, but I believe that is simply a concession to our human limitations of understanding. Personally, I believe God is much "more" than gendered - transcendent is a good word, Graeme.
Let's see some Scriptural proof that God is female. I challenge anyone to produce such proof.
@Kim:
Granted, I can be sarcastic at time but I prefer to be sarcastic rather than calling people stupid and ignorant.
As for your knowledge and experience, we have only your opinion. For the moment, I am not impressed by what I see. Of course, it is just my opinion... (I hope I am not too sarcastic for your taste)
You need to resist being sarcastic AND calling people names. It is not a virtue to use sarcasm instead of name calling. We all need to pay attention to how we treat people on this forum - especially people who rile us up. We editors are trying to improve civility here. Please help. - website editor
Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.... on to vs 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
From this verse one may conclude the the image of God is fully male and female.
On to a different subject of the role of a woman. Genesis 2:18 it is not good that man should be alone; I will make him an help (H5828 ezer) meet for him.
When I look through the old testament on how ezer (21 times) is utilized the following guides us:
Deu 33:20 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the Lord, the shield of they help (ezer) and who is the sword of thy excellency!
Psa 20:2 Send thee help (ezer) from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion...
Psa 33:20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord; he is our help (ezer) and our shield.
Psa 121:2 My help (ezer) cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.
This is a very active role for a woman, help meet, and ezer must fulfil! Thank goodness for my husband who also fulfils this role for me!
"This is for TJG and everyone else who misquotes sister White or who like to think their opinions are above the word of God as written and think they need to interpret for us on how they think it should read. IT IS WRITTEN is to decide all controversies" -- GregS
___________________________________________________
This is for GregS and everyone else who blah, blah, blah, blah....
Greg my man, I'm a strong believer in Last Generation Theology, which states:
The Lord will not return until the Last Generation of Seventh-day Adventists ordain women.
Please join me in hastening the Lord's return. Maranatha!
tg
Please avoid returning harsh comments with harsh comments. -website editor
The Biblical God has not revealed himself as a pagan male/female polarity, nor as a male with a female consort, nor as any such thing. He has revealed himself fully as the incarnate man Jesus, who prayed to his Father in heaven (he had a mother, named Mary), and they sent their Spirit to the believers.
This same Jesus interacted with lots of people, used a lot of similes, but called and sent twelve apostles (all men). Mary Magdalene, Mary the Mother of Jesus, and other such women in his circle were not among these 12. They were not presbyters, nor were they episkopoi.
To say they must now be is to take today's standards and say we are more enlightened than Jesus, and we must change what he did to conform with what we think is better.
To reject his revelation of God in favor of something we think must be right is to turn from Biblical revelation to pagan projection of our known reality onto a God we do not see (except in Christ Jesus).
To do either of these things is to deny that Jesus is the fullest revelation of God, and to deny that his words and his acts are of supreme authority in the Church. It makes us the center, and our ideas, and our hopes, and our dreams.
Anonymous7,
I think that you would only be impressed if I agreed with you :)
I don't think that we can prove that God is anything in particular but "transcendent"(thanks Graeme, again)... beyond our capacities to understand. Many here have invested interests in making God, what ever God is, into what fits within their personal paradigms.
Kim
Wow
What one learns on Spectrum, God the father is actually God the mother . Funny but Jesus did pray, "Our Father" . No no of course he didn't that was just the way those male listeners wrote it down because of their attitude toward women.
Throw away Scripture and believe what you want to believe so long as it suits ourselves.
Bill, here is a "pagan projection of our KNOWN REALITY" for you:
Flow backwards to your sources, sacred rivers,
And let the world's great order be reversed.
Story shall now turn my condition to a fair one,
Women shall now be paid their due.
No more shall evil-sounding fame be theirs.
-- Euripides
Our "known reality" hasn't served us well, I note, if social and environmental markers are any evidence.
You need to resist being sarcastic AND calling people names. It is not a virtue to use sarcasm instead of name calling. We all need to pay attention to how we treat people on this forum - especially people who rile us up. We editors are trying to improve civility here. Please help. - website editor.
And one would hope that it will also include respect and civility when speaking about Ted Wilson, General Conference President. The next time someone bashes him will be an opportunity to admonish the writer to be more temperate.
If you disagree with his position on WO or any other area so be it. Speaking of him in demeaning language is not genteel nor Christian.
Your Friend,
You are right.
The same principle should be applied to the RCC, the Pope, and any other non-SDA church!
I understand that you support this approach, right?
Both are true:
God is spirit, beyond gender.
Gender is part of the divine image.
---------------------------
Genesis 1:27 Women and Men created in God’s image
“Humankind was created as God's reflection: in the divine image God created them; female and male, God made them."
Hosea 11:3-4 God described as a mother
God: “Yet it was I who taught Ephraim to walk, I who took them up in my arms; but they did not know that I healed them. I led them with cords of human kindness, with bands of love. I was to them like those who lift infants to their cheeks. I bent down to them and fed them.”
Hosea 13:8 God described as a mother bear
"Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them and tear them asunder...”
Deuteronomy 32:11-12 God described as a mother eagle
“Like the eagle that stirs up its nest, and hovers over its young, God spreads wings to catch you, and carries you on pinions.”
Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth
“You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.”
Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother
God: “As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”
Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother
God: “Can a woman forget her nursing child, or show no compassion for the child of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you.”
Isaiah 42:14 God as a woman in labor
God: “For a long time I have held my peace, I have kept myself still and restrained myself; now I will cry out like a woman in labor, I will gasp and pant.”
Jeremiah 44:25 Queen of Heaven
“Thus says…the God of Israel: You and your wives have accomplished in deeds what you declared in words, ‘We are determined to …make offerings to the queen of heaven and to pour out libations to her.’ By all means, keep your vows and make your libations!”
Psalm131:2 God as a Mother
“But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; my soul is like the weaned child that is with me.”
Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman
“As the eyes of a servant looks to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to you, YHWH, until you show us your mercy!”
Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen
Jesus: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”
Luke 15:8-10 God as woman looking for her lost coin
Jesus: “Or what woman having ten silver coins, is she loses one of them, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
____________________________________________________
"be reverent in behavior, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good" titus 2:3
@Kim:
Anonymous7,I think that you would only be impressed if I agreed with you :)
Not really. I am open to any opinions but having you agreeing with me would not hurt :-)
I don't think that we can prove that God is anything in particular but "transcendent"(thanks Graeme, again)... beyond our capacities to understand. Many here have invested interests in making God, what ever God is, into what fits within their personal paradigms.
Kim
I would agree with you on that but at the same time we cannot take this as an excuse or pretext to entertain wild speculations(I am not speaking of you here, only generally).
@website editor:
You need to resist being sarcastic AND calling people names. It is not a virtue to use sarcasm instead of name calling. We all need to pay attention to how we treat people on this forum - especially people who rile us up. We editors are trying to improve civility here. Please help. - website editor.
Point taken.
What makes God a man? Does he have a penis? What makes God supposedly not a woman - that he doesn't have a vagina, ovaries and breasts that can lactate? Is it about certain hormones flowing through his body?
Or is it about qualities that God has? Strength, compassion, love, care, tenderness, justice, patience - all qualities that both genders can express. God as creator - both women and men show creative and generative ability.
Until I can be shown clearly in what way God is a male, I will consider God to be above gender and gender descriptions of god to be anthropomorphic.
@S Styrra:
Was Jesus' prayer anthropomorphic when He taught us how to pray:
"Our Father who is in Heaven"?
Anonymous7 - do you actually think that God is a Male Being?
And yes, calling God - Father - is an anthropomorphic way of addressing him - not that we should not think of God as an heavenly parent - most definitely - and we can also think of him holding us in the palms of his hand and rejoice that his eye is always on us.
Hosea says we can call God, our husband, and we are his beloved bride. So are you Anoymous7 the bride of God" Or is that too anthropomorphic for you to consider? :-)
This has been an interesting discussion. My premise that the use of masculine stories, examples and language in conveying God's word has colored our ability to see God as transcendent, above gender and thus led to a less than inclusive presentation of the gospel. This one sided, male dominated message has in turn hindered our ability to relate to one another properly as equals in God's sight.
It has been eye-opening to me to realize that there are those who actually envision God as a Male Being - who runs a hierachical government where females are to be subservient to males. Wow!
How instructive that such a well articulated commentary on gender inclusivity is still necessary in 2012. It seems so 1970's!
Thank you for sharing. As I sit in the pew each week, I struggle with this. For me, my soul aches for more inclusivity. God truly is so much bigger than gendered words. Yet, how does one connect everyone to the idea that connecting to women's stories and the feminine in God helps to enrich us all?
Well stirred, Donna. Well stirred. Thank you for your thought provoking piece.
"Your Friend",
There are many on this site that will never submit to the Word of God as they have been deceived to believe that what God says is not what He means when it contradicts a view that they cherish.
People attack me and others that share what is written in context on the topic at hand. God is a God of order and is the same God that set up men as leaders of the church since Creation and we also know this is the case in the New Testament for the only time Paul spoke of his own opinion, he made it clear that it was not counsel of God.
Women are not inferior but have a different function than men according to God's order. The Father and the Son also have different functions but neither are less God or of less importance.
Those who are seeking to know the truth and to understand the will of God, who are faithful to the light and zealous in the performance of their daily duties, will surely know of the doctrine, for they will be guided into all truth. God does not promise, by the masterly acts of His providence, to irresistibly bring men to the knowledge of His truth, when they do not seek for truth and have no desire to know the truth.
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17
People on this site always have great sounding opinions and there will be opinions offered to interpret what I have shared here. In the end, we shall we judged according to the written Word.
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48
Men and women's ideas of what is right will not count or be an excuse. Eve fell because she refused to trust what God said and Jesus gave us the example that we can only defeat the enemy by the Word of God, It Is Written.
Sister White makes it simple in these few words:
"Thus saith the Lord" is sufficient to settle all controversy. {ST, May 20, 1886 par. 6}
God bless,
Greg
Great work as usual Donna.
I'm always amused at males who's masculinity is so fragile that they think it needs to be supported by religious dictates.
@Donna Haerich:
No, I don't believe that God is a Male being. But it is interesting that Jesus told us to call Him Father.
I have nothing against an anthropomorphic description but by saying: "until I can be shown clearly in what way God is a male, I will consider God to be above gender and gender descriptions of god to be anthropomorphic.", S Styrra gave the impression to be against how God decided to presented Himself, that is, as a male figure by calling His description anthropomorphic, as if this description was just given by human beings and was purely arbitrary.
My contention is that this description is not arbitrary.
MrBadger wrote:
Great work as usual Donna.
I'm always amused at males who's masculinity is so fragile that they think it needs to be supported by religious dictates.
Well, I could say that it is amusing to see women so fragile in their femininity that they need to do the same things as men to feel accomplished.
Yes, I could say that if I didn't think that it is rather pathetic.
Also MrBadger, you need to prove your statement. Is it really because some men feel fragile that they think that there are things that women should not do? Or did they read something in the Bible and they decided to follow the Word of God?
And what do you think of these women (I know a few) who agree with that picture? Are they fragile too? Are they brainwashed?
So, unless you can prove your statement, this is just a gratuitous one.
Donna,
Your sarcastic remarks reveal the spirit. God the Father as He is referred to as Our Father which art in heaven and never is the female gender referred to in reference to the Son or the Father. There is subordination in heaven of a Godly nature with God and with the angels and among humans. This is clear in scripture and is revealed even clearer and to the point about hierarchy in roles of the Father and the son and the angelic host in the Story of Redemption as seen in Chapter 1.
To be inferior because you have a different function than you may wish to have is not supported in scripture. All people are of equal importance but each have a different function as we see throughout heaven and in scripture.
God does not DISCRIMINATE. God DIFFERENTIATES. If you believe Sister White's writings are inspired, please read what she says about modern Eve's.
God bless,
Greg
I like how "hopeful" enumerated a litany of texts providing feminine references to God and yet those with tunnel vision steadfastly stick to their position wholly ignoring them all!
Pnuema--Greek for the Holy Spirit--is gender neutral. Have many of you thought your theology to its logical conclusion? Are two parts of the Trinity male and 1 part genderless? ??
Language is an imperfect conveyor of information. The words used to describe an infinite God could never entirely encapsulate the Divine. Just because God is called Father, that means God is male?? Then Jesus is also quite literally bread and water and a vine. God is actually a rock and a bear and a wheel in a wheel...Jesus is a shepherd (though I thought Jesus was a carpenter) and also a vinedresser and farmer. Obviously God is also just as much a father of a prodigal son as God is a woman seeking lost coins. Which of course means each of us is a piece of round metallic monetary tender. And we are also all literally sheep and various body parts. And each member of our church--both male and female--are all brides...Do you realize how ridiculous that all is!!??
If anyone suggested that God actually had intercourse in order to impregnate someone (who?) to "birth" us, it would be considered both asinine and sacreligious. But that's is how males become fathers, right? God is addressed as our Father, but Jesus also explained why this was chosen: if fathers know how to give good gifts to their children, we should thus understand that our Father will not refrain from doing the same with us.The metaphors and similes of the Word help our finite minds to understand a tiny bit better about God, but don't think what we have been able to grasp is all that there is to God! Now we see through a glass darkly but then face to face...one day we will all be able to know, even as now we are fully known. When we finally met God, all of our expectations will be blown out of the water!
Some ppl will be surprised that God is not a man...and God is not a white man...
Seen at a LGBT rally - "Jesus had two dads, why can't I?"!
Thank you, Donna! Thank you for using your voice to empower women and men and to school the "cavemen" who came out of the holes to cast a few stones.
Oh well. At least we know they read something worth reading - even if only for today.
;-)
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